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Thread: What's an infidel?

  1. #1
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน justcruzing1's Avatar
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    What's an infidel?

    WHAT'S AN INFIDEL?

    This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in prison ministry.

    The man who walks with God always gets to his destination.

    If you have a pulse you have a purpose.







    The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!

    Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance.

    During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who each explained their beliefs.

    I was particularly interested in what the Islamic had to say. The Muslim gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video.

    After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

    When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Muslim and asked: 'Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven.

    If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?'

    There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, 'Non-believers!'

    I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'

    The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.'

    He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'

    I then stated, 'Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine The Pope commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr.Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in heaven!' The Muslim was speechless!

    I continued, 'I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question: Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to heaven and He wants you to be there with me?'

    You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head.

    Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with my way of dealing with the Islamic Imam, and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.

    In less than twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in Australia to elect the Prime Minister!

    I think everyone in the Australia should be required to read this
    "Of course you love me darling, I handsome man 55555"

  2. #2
    Frequent Flyer kaptainrob's Avatar
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    And here I was thinking and infidel was a man who cheated on his wife ... (;-)

    Since Christians worship a similar God, or the other way around, then surely it is only an 'interpretation' based on infidels as 'atheists' or devil worshippers?

    Naturally it would be impossible to convince a brainwashed fanatic of alternate meanings. Fortunately most well-educated Muslims do not adhere to jihad crap.
    Cheers, Rob.
    Lifes journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but to skid in sideways totally worn out, shouting: holy s.h.i.t what a ride!

  3. #3
    Organic AI Quarky's Avatar
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    Probably for a bit of balance we should add this...

    Viral Email: "Muslim Belief"

    Viral Email: "Muslim Belief"
    May 13, 2010 2:01 pm ET
    The following email has been widely forwarded. Media Matters Action Network has written a response to the text below. Please feel free to copy and paste it and send it to your friends.

    MUSLIM BELIEF

    [note - all mistakes below are original to the text]




    From: XXXXXXXXXXXX@sbcglobal.net
    To: XXXXXX@hotmail.com
    Sent: Mon, Jan 4, 2010 8:32 pm
    Subject: Muslim Belief

    Muslim Belief

    This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in prison ministry. The man who walks with God always gets to his destination. If you have a pulse you have a purpose.

    The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States , especially in the minority races!!!

    Last month I attended my annual training session that's required

    For maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.

    I was part icularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video.

    After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

    When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: 'Please, corr ect me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?'

    There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, 'Non-believers!'

    I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'

    The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.'

    He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'

    I then stated, 'Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in heaven!'

    The Imam was speechless!

    I continued, 'I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me!

    Let me ask you a question: Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to heaven and He wants you to be there with me?'

    You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the Diversification training seminar were not happy with my way of dealing with the Islamic Imam, and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.

    In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. To elect the President!

    Muslim Demographics Decalz - HansGruen (vodpod) | Lockerz

    I think everyone in the U.S. Should be required to read this, but with ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized, unless each of us send it on! This is your chance to make a difference....

    FOR GODS' SAKE! SEND THIS ON!

    RESPONSE

    Thanks for sending this my way. If this indeed was true, it would be disturbing and very frightening. We should not have to worry that our neighbors and coworkers might hurt us because their religion commands them to.

    Luckily, I looked into this a bit more and found that the story seems to be made up.

    The person in question, Rick Mathes, is executive director of Mission Gate Prison Ministry and this event took place at a correctional facility in Missouri. The folks over at Snopes.com reached out to the facility and one of their spokesmen gave an altogether different version of events. Here is how they reported it:


    According to Tim Kniest, Public Information Officer for the Missouri Department of Corrections, the event described was a training for prison volunteers, for which ministers from several faiths were invited to give presentations in order to acquaint prison volunteers with the varied religious beliefs of the inmate population. The man who gave the presentation about Islam was not a Muslim minister; he was an inmate pressed into service to present a short film on Islam and answer some questions when the prison's Volunteer Coordinator was "unable to find an Imam to speak."

    Moreover, reported Mr. Kniest, the prison's Volunteer Coordinator said that "The inmate did a good job," adding, "He was asked a few questions that were beyond his ability to answer. But he was not asked anything like that question [in the editorial]."
    snopes.com: Allah or Jesus?
    Of course, the fact that this exchange did not occur is not enough proof that the underlying claim is false. Are Muslims instructed to kill non-Muslims? Of course not. In 2007, for example, you'll remember that some of the most prominent Muslim leaders in the world sent a letter to Pope Benedict XVI and other Christian leaders "urging greater understanding between the two faiths."


    The letter was signed by prominent Muslim leaders, politicians and academics, including the Grand Muftis of Bosnia and Hercegovina, Russia, Croatia, Kosovo and Syria, the Secretary-General of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference, the former Grand Mufti of Egypt and the founder of the Ulema Organisation in Iraq.
    BBC NEWS | Europe | Muslim scholars reach out to Pope
    Are Muslims instructed to wage war against those who are not Muslim? Not according to some of the most learned Islamic scholars in the world.

    These days, attacking Islam and creating suspicion towards Muslims is a very profitable venture. Many people have become very wealthy by writing books and going on speaking tours impugning Islam and Muslims.

    Some people even claim to be former Muslims to give their words legitimacy. Take for example Ergun Caner who is president of the theological seminary at Liberty University. Egrun's claim to fame is that he was born and raised in Turkey, participated in jihad and debated some of the leading Muslim scholars. As Christianity Today reported, it turns out that Caner actually grew up in Ohio and there is no proof that he has had the debates he professes to have had. Would you really trust someone like that when he tells you what Muslims are commanded to do?
    Christianity Today Gleanings: Liberty Panel to Investigate Seminary President Caner's statements

    These days, people will say and do virtually anything to become famous and to amass a following. Unfortunately, there are a lot of dishonest people who are seeking to bring divisions between us.

    Lastly, the e-mail claims that in next 20 years, "there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. To elect the President!" This too is false. Check this out: Email: "Muslim Demographics" | Media Matters Action Network

    I hope this information helps.

    Kindly,

    –Media Matters Action Network
    My only experience was in a pie making factory managing the gravy team


  4. #4
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Changone's Avatar
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    Infidels are what muslims call "Non believers". Question is, where does the kill response originate from?

    Christians had a similar thing going a few hundred years back and they had a kind of "Taliban" called the Spanish Inquisition whose job it was to root out and kill any "Non believers".
    Both of these things are what is called "Extremist".
    Likewise, both of these grabbed all the headlines at the time while their respective religions lived on for better or for worse.


    And where the hell was Biggles.....?....when you needed him last Saturday....?

  5. #5
    Frequent Flyer kaptainrob's Avatar
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    Good find DP... now, back to photo searches ... leow leow!
    Cheers, Rob.
    Lifes journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but to skid in sideways totally worn out, shouting: holy s.h.i.t what a ride!

  6. #6
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน PeteGill's Avatar
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    It does seem to be one of these viral mails that you would want to run by a site like Snoops..
    I am no expert on the Muslim or any religion for that matter, but I do work with a number of Muslims and they all seem to be nice enough people who perhaps are a bit wary about attacks on their religion..

    The one guy I have spoken at length to tells me that true Islam is about living peacefully with your neigbours and accepting.. So who knows...

  7. #7
    Organic AI Quarky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteGill View Post
    It does seem to be one of these viral mails that you would want to run by a site like Snoops..
    I am no expert on the Muslim or any religion for that matter, but I do work with a number of Muslims and they all seem to be nice enough people who perhaps are a bit wary about attacks on their religion..

    The one guy I have spoken at length to tells me that true Islam is about living peacefully with your neigbours and accepting.. So who knows...
    Post 3 includes snopes. The email is fake.

    I have dated two Muslim women in the past. One was a Pakistani Muslim I dated about 20 years ago. And one was an Iraqi Muslim I dated about 7 years ago. Both were absolutely lovely... and I never got the impression from either of them that they wanted to kill me... well, not while we were dating anyway... 555
    My only experience was in a pie making factory managing the gravy team


  8. #8
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน PeteGill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distantpeak View Post
    Post 3 includes snopes. The email is fake.

    I have dated two Muslim women in the past. One was a Pakistani Muslim I dated about 20 years ago. And one was an Iraqi Muslim I dated about 7 years ago. Both were absolutely lovely... and I never got the impression from either of them that they wanted to kill me... well, not while we were dating anyway... 555
    That is why I mentioned Snopes.. Same with FB, 99% of the warnings passed on there are fake too..

    My one cousin is married to a Turkish Mulsim lady.. Believe me that Zanab can party with the best of them and drink most under the table 55555
    I do think we tend to get the image of the Islamic extremist and then label all Muslims as the same..

  9. #9
    Organic AI Quarky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteGill View Post
    That is why I mentioned Snopes.. Same with FB, 99% of the warnings passed on there are fake too..

    My one cousin is married to a Turkish Mulsim lady.. Believe me that Zanab can party with the best of them and drink most under the table 55555
    I do think we tend to get the image of the Islamic extremist and then label all Muslims as the same..
    I agree. I must admit I am just as bad. When I see a South African walking towards me, I immediately think he'll walk straight through me rather than around... 55

    But seriously. Radicals of any nation or religion can create stereotypes... what is the stereotype of an American in Iran I wonder?
    My only experience was in a pie making factory managing the gravy team


  10. #10
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน PeteGill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distantpeak View Post
    I agree. I must admit I am just as bad. When I see a South African walking towards me, I immediately think he'll walk straight through me rather than around... 55
    It is OK when I see a Kiwi I expect him to have a sheep stuck to the front of him 55555

    There is nothing wrong with stereotypes. per-say as they can often be used to mirror national identities.. It is when negative connotations are used to show groups of people in a bad light that I have a problem. Often that will only reflect a small percentage of the country.. Take a snapshot of the worst and then label all as being the same..
    Quarky likes this.

  11. #11
    Frequent Flyer kaptainrob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteGill View Post
    It is OK when I see a Kiwi I expect him to have a sheep stuck to the front of him 55555~..
    Oi Pete I resemble that remark! 555



    We've had 2 Muslim landlords in Th., One in Kamala who Chob will confirm as more a friend and neighbour than most non-muslims. His sister still rings Jo at times to see how we are and what we're doing.

    Here in CM we have a Taiwanese/Thai Muslim landlord.... his wife calls in 4 days a week for coffee with Jo and always brings home-cooked food for me to taste-test ...
    Quarky and Nomad like this.
    Cheers, Rob.
    Lifes journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but to skid in sideways totally worn out, shouting: holy s.h.i.t what a ride!

  12. #12
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน justcruzing1's Avatar
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    I agree with what is said above about steryotyping religions or nationalities.

    What I think is the general masses need to start doing something to stop/protest against, the radicals.

    To show the world what they really stand for. If they don't then the radicals will create the hate etc that will be felt towards the general populus.
    "Of course you love me darling, I handsome man 55555"

  13. #13
    Organic AI Quarky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justcruzing1 View Post
    I agree with what is said above about steryotyping religions or nationalities.

    What I think is the general masses need to start doing something to stop/protest against, the radicals.

    To show the world what they really stand for. If they don't then the radicals will create the hate etc that will be felt towards the general populus.
    But look at Northern Ireland. If the masses feel suppressed or that they have been wronged somehow, then even though they may condemn the radicals, the means to an end may be too powerful... the terrorists in NI ultimately got what they and the general population (Catholic side) wanted...
    My only experience was in a pie making factory managing the gravy team


  14. #14
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน justcruzing1's Avatar
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    Japan & Muslins.



    I NEVER KNEW THIS ABOUT JAPAN


    The Japanese are a very evolved race.

    Have you ever read in the newspaper that a political leader or a prime
    minister from an Islamic nation has visited Japan?
    Have you ever come across news that the Ayatollah of Iran or the King of
    Saudi Arabia or even a Saudi Prince has visited Japan?

    Japan is a country keeping Islam at bay.
    Japan has put strict restrictions on Islam and ALL Muslims.
    The reasons are:

    a) Japan is the only nation that does not give citizenship to Muslims.
    b) In Japan permanent residency is not given to Muslims.
    c) There is a strong ban on the propagation of Islam in Japan.
    d) In the University of Japan, Arabic or any Islamic language is not taught.
    e) One cannot import a 'Koran' published in the Arabic language.
    f) According to data published by the Japanese government, it has given
    temporary residency to only 2 lakhs, Muslims, who must follow the Japanese
    Law of the Land. These Muslims should speak Japanese and carry their
    religious rituals in their homes.
    g) Japan is the only country in the world that has a negligible number of
    embassies in Islamic countries.
    h) Japanese people are not attracted to Islam at all.
    I) Muslims residing in Japan are the employees of foreign companies.
    j) Even today, visas are not granted to Muslim doctors, engineers or
    managers sent by foreign companies.
    k) In the majority of companies it is stated in their regulations that no
    Muslims should apply for a job.
    l) The Japanese government is of the opinion that Muslims are fundamentalist
    and even in the era of globalization they are not willing to change their
    Muslim laws.
    m) Muslims cannot even think about renting a house in Japan.
    n) If anyone comes to know that his neighbor is a Muslim then the whole
    neighborhood stays alert.
    o) No one can start an Islamic cell or Arabic 'Madrasa' in Japan
    p) There is no Sharia law in Japan.
    q) If a Japanese woman marries a Muslim then she is considered an outcast
    forever.
    r) According to Mr. Kumiko Yagi, Professor of Arab/Islamic Studies at Tokyo
    University of Foreign Studies, "There is a mind frame in Japan that Islam is
    a very narrow minded religion and one should stay away from it."
    s) Freelance journalist Mohammed Juber toured many Islamic countries after
    9/11 including Japan. He found that the Japanese were confident that
    extremists could do no harm in Japan.


    My personal estimation of the Japanese has risen dramatically!





    VERY SMART PEOPLE!!
    "Of course you love me darling, I handsome man 55555"

  15. #15
    Organic AI Quarky's Avatar
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    ^Unfortunately virtually none of that is true though...

    Islam in Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Japan, a country keeping Islam at bay - snopes.com

    MOFA: Japan-Saudi Arabia Relations

    According to japanfocus.org,[13] 'There are currently between 30 and 40 single-story mosques in Japan, plus another 100 or more apartment rooms set aside, in the absence of more suitable facilities, for prayers.
    Japan gives Islam as much respect as it does any other religion, including Christianity.
    My only experience was in a pie making factory managing the gravy team


  16. #16
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน PeteGill's Avatar
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    Just like google, snoops is your friend and so to is Hoax Slayer....

  17. #17
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน justcruzing1's Avatar
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    Ok, I'll try to check thing out more, it came by email to me from a friend that I thought would have checked it first. He is noemally very reliable.
    "Of course you love me darling, I handsome man 55555"

  18. #18
    Organic AI Quarky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justcruzing1 View Post
    Ok, I'll try to check thing out more, it came by email to me from a friend that I thought would have checked it first. He is normally very reliable.
    Is his name Nick Griffin... 555
    My only experience was in a pie making factory managing the gravy team


  19. #19
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน PeteGill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justcruzing1 View Post
    Ok, I'll try to check thing out more, it came by email to me from a friend that I thought would have checked it first. He is noemally very reliable.
    No worries, you won't be the first nor the last to be caught out by an e-mail like that.

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