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Thread: The Best Day I've Ever Had in Thailand

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    Platinum Pinot's Avatar
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    The Best Day I've Ever Had in Thailand

    This was it! The day they took away every structure that encroached on the Phuket beaches. You canít imagine how huge that is for a guy that walks these beaches every day. They are coming in with bulldozers. It's a miracle.

    There was only one way this could have happened. Buddha bless, the Thai military. The same military that just took out the Taxi mafia, just pulled off an amazing ecological coup, they cleaned up the King's beaches.

    You need to lower your expectations when you live here. You expect the entrenched corruption. Everyone official you deal with in Thailand is bent. I guess thatís why Iím so amazed. In my wildest dreams I never expected this day would come.

    Best day ever. The only thing allowed on a King's beach...is sand.
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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน RakThai's Avatar
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    Must say this post strikes me as odd..
    Thailand has a very long coastline, and I would say 90% of that stretch is pristine and unspoiled..

    You choose to live in the most touristy area of the Thai coast, and fully benefit from the facilities the tourists attract..
    Sure there are a few "All-for-money mob characters, but the majority are just honest poor people who want to make a living..

    When I hear about the demolitions going on around Phuket... I can't help it, but my thoughts go to the hundreds if not thousands of people who had a job and a living last week, and are deprived of it now..

    Enjoy your walks..
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    What is being demolished & exactly where ?. Not heard anything about this

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaynewcastle View Post
    What is being demolished & exactly where ?. Not heard anything about this
    The illegal encroachments of seaside beach clubs and restaurants. I believe the police backed Junta gave the owners 7 days to remove their structures or the police would do it for them.

    Basically it's every beach in Phuket that going to be affected by the order.
    Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post
    Must say this post strikes me as odd..
    Thailand has a very long coastline, and I would say 90% of that stretch is pristine and unspoiled..

    You choose to live in the most touristy area of the Thai coast, and fully benefit from the facilities the tourists attract..
    Sure there are a few "All-for-money mob characters, but the majority are just honest poor people who want to make a living..

    When I hear about the demolitions going on around Phuket... I can't help it, but my thoughts go to the hundreds if not thousands of people who had a job and a living last week, and are deprived of it now..

    Enjoy your walks..
    It's a tough call... on one side you have the environmental issues of beach conservation vs. the right for someone to make a living.

    That said, if you follow the point of law... what the encroachers are doing is illegal and profiting from it. Not only locals but well established businesses are going to lose money because they skirt the rules. With the mindset.... I'll do wrong now (bend or ignore the rules) and beg for forgiveness later (pay compensation, fines or donate funds to a charity) or lobby for an exception to the rule and pay off the right people. However in this case... they're isn't going to be any forgiveness. It's pretty clear... you broke the rules now leave.

    It's shame that some of the atmosphere is going to be lost, I have a friend that has a successful beach side bar (attached to a hotel) that has to be knocked down and he's had it for a least 3 or 4 years. So I do see where if you didn't know your structure was on illegal ground when you bought into it and now were told you are going to lose it, it can be pretty devastating.
    Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck.

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน RakThai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley View Post
    It's a tough call... on one side you have the environmental issues of beach conservation vs. the right for someone to make a living.

    That said, if you follow the point of law... what the encroachers are doing is illegal and profiting from it. Not only locals but well established businesses are going to lose money because they skirt the rules. With the mindset.... I'll do wrong now (bend or ignore the rules) and beg for forgiveness later (pay compensation, fines or donate funds to a charity) or lobby for an exception to the rule and pay off the right people. However in this case... they're isn't going to be any forgiveness. It's pretty clear... you broke the rules now leave.

    It's shame that some of the atmosphere is going to be lost, I have a friend that has a successful beach side bar (attached to a hotel) that has to be knocked down and he's had it for a least 3 or 4 years. So I do see where if you didn't know your structure was on illegal ground when you bought into it and now were told you are going to lose it, it can be pretty devastating.
    That is just it, isn't it?
    At the moment, there is no law..! There is not even a state-form...
    No government, no minister of justice, etc.

    In any judicial system I know off, there is the law, and there is what is called here "law by practice"... and "interpretations of the law by judges"
    The "laws by practice" are very strong in Thailand, and always have been... Started with the way deforestation lands were appointed.. Not by law, but by appointment.. how the rich got rich...
    This has determined the system in Thailand, you pay a favor by a favor (Saam nuk bun kun), which can, but does not have to involve money..

    To suddenly abandon this system... I don't get it...
    Or maybe I do.. Redistributing power and money to where it "belongs"?

    The ones who made businesses that are now torn down have paid for the privilege, and no change on earth they can get there money back...
    The people who just worked there are now without jobs, without ability to take care of there families.. Or even worse, deported or arrested..

    The ones who will set up the same businesses in a week, a month or a year...?
    You know, it's not rocket science... Or you truly believe GenP to be an environmentalist? 555

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    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Uber Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Mr. Smiley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post
    Or you truly believe GenP to be an environmentalist? 555
    I believe him to be a populist whose mandate is all form of corruption is bad. I agree with you it's out of character to be this harsh usually there's a long transition rather then a swift (almost immediate) resolution. As for what will come after a year... who knows... maybe they'll start encroaching again or maybe the TT mafia will go underground and resurface as a new entity.

    As an expat, (or anyone staying here long-term), I'd monitor what they would be doing with immigration. Because I can imagine the scrutiny and application of the "rules" is something that is going to be handled sooner or later, imo.
    Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck.

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    Foundation Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Minder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post
    ......
    When I hear about the demolitions going on around Phuket... I can't help it, but my thoughts go to the hundreds if not thousands of people who had a job and a living last week, and are deprived of it now..

    ..
    Last trip we stayed mostly at a small resort in the Kamala hills. It overlooked a huge tin-shack construction workers camp. Mostly Burmese by the look and sound of them. There was easily several hundred people there, men, women, children, families.

    I don't doubt that a lot of them were illegals and are now on their way "home" courtesy of the crackdown - but if they are replaced by legal registered immigrant workers and/or Thais who must be paid the legal minimum wages - then I see that as a good thing overall. (even if prices rise slightly for me)

    It is a better path than leaving things as they were isn't it?

    (My fear is that any reforms will be relatively short lived and all this pain and discomfort will be for nothing.)



    Enjoy...
    Life is the unexpected ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post
    Must say this post strikes me as odd..
    Thailand has a very long coastline, and I would say 90% of that stretch is pristine and unspoiled..

    You choose to live in the most touristy area of the Thai coast, and fully benefit from the facilities the tourists attract..
    Sure there are a few "All-for-money mob characters, but the majority are just honest poor people who want to make a living..

    When I hear about the demolitions going on around Phuket... I can't help it, but my thoughts go to the hundreds if not thousands of people who had a job and a living last week, and are deprived of it now..

    Enjoy your walks..
    What were all these poor people doing before they illegally set up shop on public land ? This is a very recent thing and not as though they are long establish family businesses going back generations.

    Don't get me wrong I can see a place for some beach bars but the fact is it has gone mad to the point that it is threatening the very beaches that bring the tourists here in the first place. It needs to be reigned in and the only fair way to do this is to apply the law equally to all.
    Always be yourself.........Unless you can be a Dragon.........Then always be a Dragon.

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Zablive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post
    That is just it, isn't it?
    At the moment, there is no law..! There is not even a state-form...
    No government, no minister of justice, etc.

    In any judicial system I know off, there is the law, and there is what is called here "law by practice"... and "interpretations of the law by judges"
    The "laws by practice" are very strong in Thailand, and always have been... Started with the way deforestation lands were appointed.. Not by law, but by appointment.. how the rich got rich...
    This has determined the system in Thailand, you pay a favor by a favor (Saam nuk bun kun), which can, but does not have to involve money..

    To suddenly abandon this system... I don't get it...
    Or maybe I do.. Redistributing power and money to where it "belongs"?

    The ones who made businesses that are now torn down have paid for the privilege, and no change on earth they can get there money back...
    The people who just worked there are now without jobs, without ability to take care of there families.. Or even worse, deported or arrested..

    The ones who will set up the same businesses in a week, a month or a year...?
    You know, it's not rocket science... Or you truly believe GenP to be an environmentalist? 555

    I think many misunderstand the "rule of law" here at present.
    Most of the Constitution may have been temporarily suspended, but the Statutes still exist.

    Once again previously issued civil orders for cleaning up the illegal beach structures, which were ignored, are being executed because the powers that be (Orbortors, Police) have to act because the Army are kicking them up the ar*e.
    As with the majority of those arrested, appearing before civil courts and bailed to await trial in the civil courts.

    These are not new military decrees under military law - they are existing orders under civil law being empowered by the Army.
    (a handful have been charged under military law and detained.)

    For those who purchased illegal businesses based on dubious titles, two words - "Due diligence".
    Minder, kaptainrob, Chob and 2 others like this.

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Chob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post
    Must say this post strikes me as odd..
    Thailand has a very long coastline, and I would say 90% of that stretch is pristine and unspoiled..

    You choose to live in the most touristy area of the Thai coast, and fully benefit from the facilities the tourists attract..
    Sure there are a few "All-for-money mob characters, but the majority are just honest poor people who want to make a living..

    When I hear about the demolitions going on around Phuket... I can't help it, but my thoughts go to the hundreds if not thousands of people who had a job and a living last week, and are deprived of it now..

    Enjoy your walks..
    I would guess at maybe 30% still pristine ...

    However , many of these 'sheds' , thrown up from scrap and placed on Public beach , are currently empty Rak ... the 'owners' have packed up their new pickups and gone up to check their rubber farms in Phang Nga , or rice crops in the Issan.

    Your sympathetic stance is admirable , but I wonder if you would come out here anymore once the beach had disappeared under the concrete of the wealthys beach clubs , and the rusty tin of the poors eatery. There wouldnt even be any sand left for yet more beach chairs , umbrellas and Jetski offices , and massage shacks...
    As Soupy points out , the propensity of Thais to reason that a business they observe must be bouyant by the fact that it lasts more than a year , leads them to copy that business. If they can do that by squatting on "free" land , and construct out of garbage , and dig a hole and call it a toilet , all to get the overheads down , then they will. This was tolerated up till now. But it is illegal , and for once it is illegal whether your restaurant is 5 star , or a small bbq.
    What do you think happened to the small bbq operator before - if the 5 star guy decided he wanted the poor guys bbq area?

    I only commented yesterday at how rarely 'poetic justice' is served up , but it is in this case.
    The biggest , and worst of the beach infringers , now have the most work to do cleaning up. Some , will have many many tonnes of cement to remove .
    ( Moos favourite spot , 'Nok' , made huge and ugly concrete additions last high season, encroaching 10 feet more out on to the sand. They were charging 220 bt for a small green curry yesterday!)
    The poorer will simply have to remove a few sticks of bamboo , and some 'borrowed' ice cream signs.

    I predict a huge rise in pushcart and side cart numbers.
    There is now no food available from the old Skylar bar on the point of North Kamala Beach , to half way up it at the end of the Moslem wall at Nanok Restaurant ( legal). All those legal restaurants on the road side of the beach and not the SAND should do way better this year.

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Uber Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Nomad's Avatar
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    What's happening at Patong Beach? What's been removed (deckchairs, bars, massage huts)?
    "Don't wait around for your life to happen to you. Find something that makes you happy and do it. Everything else is just background noise." George Mason

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    I have to agree with Pinot and Mr Smiley, although I do NOT know all the details. There DOES come a time when a benevolent dictator has to step in to prevent the wealthy from grabbing everything for their own. Once it becomes entrenched it is much harder to go backwards. It is noticeably obvious all over Thailand when you try to walk on sidewalks that are no more than places for vendors to set up shop, or businesses to expand from an existing shop. Travelers are required to walk in the streets and sois and around all the parked vehicles. I always cringe when I think of people who require wheel chairs or buggies for children.

    That was one of the beauties that I noticed in New Zealand. Nobody is allowed to own the actual waterfront. The public has free access along beaches, lakes and rivers. That hasn't happened in much of North America, and even less in the USA. Wealthy people were allowed to purchase vast tracts of land, and keep the public out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Forbes View Post

    That was one of the beauties that I noticed in New Zealand. Nobody is allowed to own the actual waterfront. The public has free access along beaches, lakes and rivers. That hasn't happened in much of North America, and even less in the USA. Wealthy people were allowed to purchase vast tracts of land, and keep the public out.
    Did you notice the Whakarewarewa blondes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by briofoz View Post
    Did you notice the Whakarewarewa blondes?
    No, I spent most of my time fishing and hiking rivers, and climbing mountains in New Zealand. We only visited a few of its many beaches. Some beaches had black sand that I believe came from volcanos at one time.

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    OK... GOOD.. they are enforcing laws/civil orders.. Laws, that many expats are taking great glee in seeing enforced... Let's hope, that the good general doesn't decide to enforce laws, that exist, that actually will have a negative effect on expats/tourists....,

    I for one, don't wish to have to worry about my passport, being in my pocket, when I am out and about, for fear of losing he damn thing. I know, that copies were acceptable if stopped, BUT is that the law? I Just don't know....Or was it a bit of slack being offered to expats/tourists... Buddah help us, if ever they decide tipping a girl, we have found in a bar, a gogo or a disco or even on the street, to leave in the morning, suddenly is policed to the letter of the law...

    It's the same everywhere I am afraid.... all is good with law enforcement, providing they don't enforce the law that YOU are bending/breaking...
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    Good points, dave01. I never carry my passport unless I'm traveling throughout the country, and even then I'm a little worried.

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Chob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    What's happening at Patong Beach? What's been removed (deckchairs, bars, massage huts)?
    I just drove back from visiting friends who work on Patong Beach.
    Those in the white tents ( leased from Or Bor Tor ) and opposite Gracelands Hotel , were of the opinion they would be fine .
    I then went down to Loma Park ( the government building on the beach at the bottom of San Sabai built expresselly for small Mum and Dad restaurants post -tsunami and half empty ) , for the first time in over a year and my god , if there was ever an argument for reform , this was it.Every restaurant around it had extended ad nauseaum. The carpark was almost gone . A huge awning had been added to the Loma building , and the corner 'ex guard box' was now a 30 table restaurant - I kid you not! All this expansion was onto public land.
    Anyone recall the Sabai Restaurant? It had rooved over the beach right up to the high water mark.
    As done all its neighbours.
    Some had even concreted large slabs ON THE SAND.
    I wont go on , but if you could witness this kind of free enterprise allowed to run unchecked you'd be happy to see the reforms carried out.
    Last edited by Chob; 15th June 2014 at 18:21.
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    The artist formally known as Wabbits Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน wabbits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zablive View Post
    I think many misunderstand the "rule of law" here at present.
    Most of the Constitution may have been temporarily suspended, but the Statutes still exist.

    Once again previously issued civil orders for cleaning up the illegal beach structures, which were ignored, are being executed because the powers that be (Orbortors, Police) have to act because the Army are kicking them up the ar*e.
    As with the majority of those arrested, appearing before civil courts and bailed to await trial in the civil courts.

    These are not new military decrees under military law - they are existing orders under civil law being empowered by the Army.
    (a handful have been charged under military law and detained.)

    For those who purchased illegal businesses based on dubious titles, two words - "Due diligence".
    Agree whole heartedly.
    how would it go if you were somewhere in farang land and your a professional With flash offices etc and outside the tin shed street kart brigade rock up offering same services camped on you doorstep and the police ignore your protests!
    Last edited by wabbits; 15th June 2014 at 22:29.
    .

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