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Thread: East Timor

  1. #1
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Changone's Avatar
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    East Timor

    Has anyone else noticed that East Timor is no longer all that friendly with Australia and since independence in 2002 things have got fairly icy between old mates?:take that mate:

    Here was I thinking that it was all good and our 400 or so soldiers there were busy building wooden huts for the poor old unfortunates so hard done by after the years of indonesion oppression.:thanks..:

    Well welcome to 2011 and we are now just a bunch of oil thieves and our nearest independent sovereign neighbour is now accepting all the "gifts" that the chinese can bestow on them, including new military barracks, a presidential palace, military training (In China) and a couple of armed gunboats to boot.:my gun is bigger:

    But hey, it's their country after all isn't it? and who needs mates when you've got a chinese big brother.
    And where the hell was Biggles.....?....when you needed him last Saturday....?

  2. #2
    The artist formally known as Wabbits Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน wabbits's Avatar
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    China is doing a little bit of this not only in E Timor
    Quite a few pacific nation have been receiving these sort of deals....
    .

  3. #3
    Foundation Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Minder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Changone View Post
    Has anyone else noticed that East Timor is no longer all that friendly with Australia and since independence in 2002 things have got fairly icy between old mates?:take that mate:

    Here was I thinking that it was all good and our 400 or so soldiers there were busy building wooden huts for the poor old unfortunates so hard done by after the years of indonesion oppression.:thanks..:

    Well welcome to 2011 and we are now just a bunch of oil thieves and our nearest independent sovereign neighbour is now accepting all the "gifts" that the chinese can bestow on them, including new military barracks, a presidential palace, military training (In China) and a couple of armed gunboats to boot.:my gun is bigger:

    But hey, it's their country after all isn't it? and who needs mates when you've got a chinese big brother.
    Some of the worst torture porn I saw a lifetime ago as a cop was from East Timor - school girls tied in trees, dead women with grinning soldiers pissing on their corpses.
    Australia knew what was happening there and did nothing.

    Rather than being proud of what we eventually did in East Timor we should be ashamed that it took us so long to act.
    The T-shirts at the 1980's Demos said it all "Fretin - Betrayed, Not Beaten"

    I think if I was an East Timorese I'd be prepared to accept brimstone from the Devil himself to defend my country and keep the Indonesian pillagers from returning......

    Maybe they see the Chinese as a lesser evil....

    As you say, it's their country.
    Life is the unexpected ...

  4. #4
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Changone's Avatar
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    I do enjoy finding out more about the way things really are, particularly when I get the feeling Australians are being let down by their government.

    Australia had no right to Timor in world war two, but we did go over there and fight the japs, with their help and tied up huge numbers which would otherwise have been engaged in New Guinea. You might say we deserted them when our soldiers were evacuated in 1943, but Portugal, a colonial power which had violently suppressed the Timorese in 1912 took the easy way out in WW2 by being neutral, (as in allowing the japs in). The fact that they were just given the place back after the Japanese surrender is the real travesty. After 1949, East Timor existed only because it was what was left of Timor after the western half the country became part of Indonesia.
    It had no real hope of escaping Indonesian influence and by 1975 it was virtually annexed by them unopposed. I was serving in the Army at the time and we were training for desert warfare in our own country against a mythical northern power.
    (I wonder who that could have been?). There was no way we were going to East Timor and taking them on there. Personally I thought it was great, and long overdue when we sent 7,000 of our soldiers over there to keep the peace as part of the UN INTERFET resolutions.

    That being said;

    East Timor today is all about Oil and gas reserves.
    There is more oil and gas in the Timor Sea than in all of Kuwait.

    "Today, with the ending of occupation by Indonesia, we come up against the wrongful seizure of our natural resources by Australia."
    -- President Xanana Gusmão, April 2004


    China isn't there out of the goodness of their hearts.
    Chinese foreign policy is always spouting about non intervention, but when there are resources to be had, they always seem to be in there with the cheque book at the ready.

    Enter the Timor sea oilfield which includes sunrise LNG.
    Attachment 570
    East Timor wants all the gas liquefied on its soil then piped to Australia where the good old Aussie consumer will pay for it and thereby float their local economy.

    A simple pipe dream?

    Thailand is now heavily involved too.

    Montara oil spill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Indonesia blames both Australia and Thailand for damage to its fish stocks, and East Timor wants compensation for environmental damage done by the oil spill.

    I don't know about you, but I see Australia's strategic economic and political interests at risk from chinese interests, and I want our government to stand up and fight for our rights at every turn.

    That's not too much to ask is it?
    And where the hell was Biggles.....?....when you needed him last Saturday....?

  5. #5
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน PatongBeachBoy's Avatar
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    Didn't we re-zone Australian waters to take in this rich gas field?... and isn't this the same Gas supply that we have the multi billion dollar contract with China?...
    It would make sense for East Timor to get chummy with China as I'm sure China would get the Gas a lot cheaper from them!

  6. #6
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Changone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatongBeachBoy View Post
    and isn't this the same Gas supply that we have the multi billion dollar contract with China?...

    Ooops... *nothing+
    China-Australia LNG agreement expires due to Australian non-performance - People's Daily Online

    And where the hell was Biggles.....?....when you needed him last Saturday....?

  7. #7
    Foundation Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Minder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Changone View Post
    I do enjoy finding out more about the way things really are, particularly when I get the feeling Australians are being let down by their government.

    Australia had no right to Timor in world war two, but we did go over there and fight the japs, with their help and tied up huge numbers which would otherwise have been engaged in New Guinea. ....That being said;

    East Timor today is all about Oil and gas reserves.
    There is more oil and gas in the Timor Sea than in all of Kuwait.

    "Today, with the ending of occupation by Indonesia, we come up against the wrongful seizure of our natural resources by Australia."
    -- President Xanana Gusmão, April 2004


    China isn't there out of the goodness of their hearts.
    Chinese foreign policy is always spouting about non intervention, but when there are resources to be had, they always seem to be in there with the cheque book at the ready.

    ...I don't know about you, but I see Australia's strategic economic and political interests at risk from chinese interests, and I want our government to stand up and fight for our rights at every turn.That's not too much to ask is it?
    We fought the Japs in Timor for altruistic reasons only then? (Sorry, couldn't resist )

    - and Fretlin were "Commies" so no harm when got what was coming to them?

    Not sure I believe those facts were as accurate as our Government would have had us believe. Some would say with our wealth, allies and military assets the Indos had more to fear from us than we did from them back then. I don't know.

    My limited understanding of the current situation: The poorest country in the area wanted some infrastructure of its shared resourses from the Sunrise field on its own soil - industry and its flow on economic stimulus to provide a partial solution to its chronic unemployment problems - a future for its children -a way forward etc.

    Australia gave them the finger on that and now they have turned to China - surely someone in our Government should have seen that coming?

    To me it looks like Timor Leste is playing one off against the other - and good luck to them.

    Enjoy
    Life is the unexpected ...

  8. #8
    Foundation Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Minder's Avatar
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    LOL....I don't remember that making the front page of the West Australian (as the signing of the agreement did!)

    You don't have to like the Chinks but by God you do have to admire their cunning !!!
    Life is the unexpected ...

  9. #9
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Changone's Avatar
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    Meanwhile the political wind turns into an icy blast and a diplomatic snub for Australia.

    No refugee Centre for us: East Timor

    Incredibly the President of East Timor wasn't even allowed to attend the Bali talks on people smuggling even though he wanted to, along with the 45 other interested parties.

    I hope we aren't seeing the start of a local branch of the Hugo Chavez appreciation society.
    And where the hell was Biggles.....?....when you needed him last Saturday....?

  10. #10
    Foundation Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Minder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Changone View Post
    Meanwhile the political wind turns into an icy blast and a diplomatic snub for Australia.

    No refugee Centre for us: East Timor

    Incredibly the President of East Timor wasn't even allowed to attend the Bali talks on people smuggling even though he wanted to, along with the 45 other interested parties.

    I hope we aren't seeing the start of a local branch of the Hugo Chavez appreciation society.
    The East Timor solution was a hastily created fairy tale woven for the last Election as a Labor Party counter to the Liberals Nauru solution to boat people - the first Timor Leste knew about it was from the the Australian media reports.
    There was never any substance to it - an equal "snub" would be to say I don't believe in the Easter Bunny.

    Have you ever seen a movie called The War on Democracy?
    If it is accurate then we both should be joining the Hugo Chavex appreciation society.

    The War on Democracy (2007) - IMDb
    The rise of Venezuela's Hugo Chavez despite ongoing Washington backed efforts to unseat him in spite of his overwhelming mass popularity, is democratic in a way that we have forgotten or abandoned in the west. True Democracy being a solid 80% voter turnout in support of Chavez in over 6 elections. Written by David Blake
    Life is the unexpected ...

  11. #11
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Changone's Avatar
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    Each to their own Mr M.
    Personally, I take most Movies and "Docu-tainment" with a pinch of salt and try to wade through all the bull and get at the facts.
    I do take your point about fairy tales being woven for the gullible masses.
    Doesn't change anything though because people smuggling is the number one political issue here in Australia along with the proposed carbon tax and the mining tax and because Australia is a democracy, these issues and factors affecting them will determine who we hand the parliamentary keys to.
    East Timor is a local sovereign state democracy whose people should be seen to be vitally interested in exactly the same things as it's near neighbours.
    I just don't want to see it go down the same path as Venezuela and Fiji.
    And where the hell was Biggles.....?....when you needed him last Saturday....?

  12. #12
    The artist formally known as Wabbits Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน wabbits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Changone View Post
    Each to their own Mr M.
    Personally, I take most Movies and "Docu-tainment" with a pinch of salt and try to wade through all the bull and get at the facts.
    I do take your point about fairy tales being woven for the gullible masses.
    Doesn't change anything though because people smuggling is the number one political issue here in Australia along with the proposed carbon tax and the mining tax and because Australia is a democracy, these issues and factors affecting them will determine who we hand the parliamentary keys to.
    East Timor is a local sovereign state democracy whose people should be seen to be vitally interested in exactly the same things as it's near neighbours.
    I just don't want to see it go down the same path as Venezuela and Fiji.
    He who smiles biggest with the most gifts wins!!!!
    .

  13. #13
    Foundation Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Minder's Avatar
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    I was standing in line to vote at the last election near a guy who was telling the person next to him how "they" had just discovered another inhabited planet "up there", with buildings and people and cars and everything like us on it......and how it wasn't far away....you could get there "in a cuppla daze" apparently.

    His vote counted for just as much as mine.

    Ahhhh....democracy

    Enjoy
    Life is the unexpected ...

  14. #14
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน PatongBeachBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minder View Post

    His vote counted for just as much as mine.
    So your saying you voted for the Greens...55555

  15. #15
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Changone's Avatar
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    Trying to keep it light...
    I hate it when we go out and queue up to cast our "Compulsory" votes in WA and while waiting we can listen to some commentator in Melbourne or Sydney calling the "Result" simply because they have worked out that even without all the remaining votes in WA, one of the major candidate parties has won enough seats to form Government.

    The Democratic process exists so that that the political party with the most power can prove that it won office in a fair fight.

    So how come we still aren't sure who really "Won" the last election.

    In some parts of the world:
    All votes are NOT equal.
    Getting the most votes is no guarantee of winning an election.
    Winning the most seats in parliament is no guarantee that you can form a government.
    And where the hell was Biggles.....?....when you needed him last Saturday....?

  16. #16
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน PatongBeachBoy's Avatar
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    I must admit, I hate the phrase "Democratic Government" when what we really have is a Democratic voting system.... we really have no say in what the b@stards do once they're elected!

  17. #17
    The artist formally known as Wabbits Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน wabbits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatongBeachBoy View Post
    I must admit, I hate the phrase "Democratic Government" when what we really have is a Democratic voting system.... we really have no say in what the b@stards do once they're elected!
    Seems we do not as they promise one thing and have amazing acrobatic ability and give us something else...
    Labour spends it libs make hard decisions but really how different are they.
    .

  18. #18
    Foundation Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Minder's Avatar
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    Who was it that said something like "Democracy is a lousy system but better than all the other options"

    Wait...Google to the rescue..... Churchill (of course) Democracy is the worst form of government, except for everything else that has been tried

    I'll b:tch and moan about the system - as is my democratic right - but when I see things like what goes on in Thailand for example - the PAD advocating that only 30% of people should have a right to vote and Thaksin being thrown out in a coup etc - well, then I am glad to be here.

    If you had to pick between Monarchist or Republican - what would you call yourself?

    I have no trouble saying leave it as it is - not sure I will still be in the Monarchist camp once my Queen Liz is gone though.

    Small potatoes to the troube somewhere else will have when their Monarch departs.
    Life is the unexpected ...

  19. #19
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน PatongBeachBoy's Avatar
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    Don't know Minder.. LOS almost has a true democracy, If they don't like the Government they block the streets or close the Airport down until change comes about!

  20. #20
    The artist formally known as Wabbits Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน wabbits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatongBeachBoy View Post
    Don't know Minder.. LOS almost has a true democracy, If they don't like the Government they block the streets or close the Airport down until change comes about!
    You have a point true democracy is an ideal...does it exist anywhere in truth.
    Like marxism or communism everyone is equal...an ideal at best.
    .

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