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Thread: Gambling problems

  1. #1
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน jontymate's Avatar
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    Gambling problems

    I have just sacked one of my most trusted and admired (brilliant mind and hard working) employees. He has been stealing from me. Turns out to feed a gambling habit. The quality control, I must have for accreditations, pointed it out. It's all on camera. Stealing raw materials for scrap value.

    It has really saddened me. I did not pick it up sooner to help if there was an issue. He knew the systems would catch him but did it anyway.

    Gambling is illegal here and dealt with harshly apart from a state owned lottery. You go elsewhere to punt in HKG or Macau.

    I have worked in the racing game as a Vet many years ago and will admit to wagering on that knowledge. Games of chance 'rainman' abilities are fiction.

    Lovely family and children. Choice is to just let him go and set an example or get the authorities involved and set a greater example to others. Both will not fix his problem.

    The difficulty here is face and perception to others. Stealing here for any reason is dealt with harshly and to compound that with an illegally activity is harsher. It will destroy his family +/- generational. All that going without and paying for his education will destroy his parents and no income going back.

    To go the liberal way 'I' will lose face and seen as soft to some 250 workforce now.

    Searching for a solution
    "Man cannot discover New Oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore" 
      
       
       
         
       
      
     

  2. #2
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Zablive's Avatar
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    How are the 250 going to know?
    Or do they already know and look the other way?

    Like here, as a Farang you have no "Face" to lose ...

  3. #3
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Bacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontymate View Post

    Searching for a solution
    Make something up.
    Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.


  4. #4
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Stillearly's Avatar
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    I would give him the option of paying you back or prosecuting him , then it's his decision , as it was to gamble and steal in the first place

  5. #5
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Uber Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน briofoz's Avatar
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    Insist on his resignation.

  6. #6
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Bacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by briofoz View Post
    Insist on his resignation.
    Brilliant. He moved on because "he found a better job" and you're "really sad to see him go".

    Then blackmail him on the side like SE said.
    Cuzzy likes this.
    Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.


  7. #7
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Stillearly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post

    Then blackmail him on the side like SE said.
    555 that's not what I meant , I don't see why Jontymate should loose out and it would be better for the former employee

  8. #8
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Bacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stillearly View Post
    555 that's not what I meant , I don't see why Jontymate should loose out and it would be better for the former employee
    You know Jonty, he's just a good bloke. He's only lost money, but like he said, this guy stands to lose everything if prosecuted. I'm sure he'll eventually end up there anyway if he keeps going like this, but at least it won't be on Jonty's head. As much as he would have the right to press charges and demand his money back.
    Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.


  9. #9
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน justcruzing1's Avatar
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    I feel for you Jonty,
    it is an awful situation and not of your making.
    Yet it is on your head what the outcome will be.

    For my two bob's worth...I would confront him, I would insist on his resignation and tell him what you can do, how bad it can be gor him, police, loss of face for him and all family inability to get work etc. but then tell him you won't report him for stealing or gambling but on some conditions.

    1 He, has to undergo counseling for his addiction, you choose the course.

    2 he has to repay you once he is working elsewhere, set a reasonable payment, you don't want him needing to steal off someone else to make the payments, remember he has a family that will wonder why he has no money.

    3 he has to tell you of any other employee's that gamble. So you can look to help counsel them and also watch out they aren't stealing as well. If he is doing it he will know and be friends with others in the same boat.

    Thell him if he fails on any of the conditions you will report him to the police, this is last chance etc.


    His resignation without explanation will be seen thru by your other staff, and if they know then you will be seen to be compassionate but firm. And lets remember in 3 months time he will be as forgotten as yesterdays newspaper.

    The last thing you need is to have him know your going to report him, he gets so stressed out he decides to top himself.

    Good luck, better you than me...guess thats why they pay you the big bucks 555555
    "Of course you love me darling, I handsome man 55555"

  10. #10
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน RakThai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontymate View Post
    I have just sacked one of my most trusted and admired (brilliant mind and hard working) employees. He has been stealing from me. Turns out to feed a gambling habit. The quality control, I must have for accreditations, pointed it out. It's all on camera. Stealing raw materials for scrap value.

    It has really saddened me. I did not pick it up sooner to help if there was an issue. He knew the systems would catch him but did it anyway.

    Gambling is illegal here and dealt with harshly apart from a state owned lottery. You go elsewhere to punt in HKG or Macau.

    I have worked in the racing game as a Vet many years ago and will admit to wagering on that knowledge. Games of chance 'rainman' abilities are fiction.

    Lovely family and children. Choice is to just let him go and set an example or get the authorities involved and set a greater example to others. Both will not fix his problem.

    The difficulty here is face and perception to others. Stealing here for any reason is dealt with harshly and to compound that with an illegally activity is harsher. It will destroy his family +/- generational. All that going without and paying for his education will destroy his parents and no income going back.

    To go the liberal way 'I' will lose face and seen as soft to some 250 workforce now.

    Searching for a solution
    What will fix his problem?
    If you can (help) fix it, or set the conditions under which he can himself, why would you want to lose a "brilliant mind and hard working employee"?

    He shot you in the knee, are you going to shoot yourself in the other knee?

    Only question is, can you help him or he help himself?
    Addictions are not easy to overcome, and it usually requires a strong will from the addict and a good professional..
    Quarky and justcruzing1 like this.

  11. #11
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Changone's Avatar
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    Jonty, A loser is a loser is a loser.
    The kindest thing you can do is cut him loose.
    Don't start to think you can control a thing like that.
    And yes, any perceived weakness on your part will be preyed upon, it goes with the territory as being a Boss.

    Minder likes this.

  12. #12
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Bacon's Avatar
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    I agree. You're not responsible for other people's problems mate. Sure, lend a helping hand when possible, but you're not responsible. Not your burden.
    Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.


  13. #13
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Uber Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Nomad's Avatar
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    A couple of simple questions to ask yourself.

    What would you do in Oz?

    Is it really different in China?

    Whatever you do avoid owing anyone anything in China...guanxi...don't end up in a position of protecting him because of your actions.
    jontymate likes this.
    "Don't wait around for your life to happen to you. Find something that makes you happy and do it. Everything else is just background noise." George Mason

  14. #14
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน meese's Avatar
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    we call it shrinkage here...supermarkets run between 1.5 and 2%.....your employee's are always going to steal from you..especially the bottom feeders..but always good to trust until they let themselves down..i know people dont like to hear it but its the truth

  15. #15
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Moo Uaon's Avatar
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    ^ meese has it right.

    let him move on and be more vigilant....been there done that. it's more your problem than his at your workplace.

    gambling is a losers game rigged in favour of the house and a lot of gamblers are addicted and not much better than a junkie.

    the best employees i had were the ones who took the less expensive stuff
    FACE YOUR FEARS LIVE YOUR DREAMS

  16. #16
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Uber Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน 1080's Avatar
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    Just kick his arse on the way out the door!

  17. #17
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Uber Star TMTBOUND's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Changone View Post
    Jonty, A loser is a loser is a loser.
    The kindest thing you can do is cut him loose.
    Don't start to think you can control a thing like that.
    And yes, any perceived weakness on your part will be preyed upon, it goes with the territory as being a Boss.

    I manage 51 leaders and 500 associates. I just do not think it is the employers role to "FIX' associates, leaders or technicians. I would have an extreme problem ever trusting someone who has lacked integrity. Once Integrity is breached your relationship will forever change. I would cut him loose without a thought.....he obviously was not too concerned about his theft impact on you or your company.
    Last edited by TMTBOUND; 28th March 2015 at 04:29.
    Minder likes this.

  18. #18
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน RakThai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMTBOUND View Post
    I manage 51 leaders and 500 associates. I just font think it is the employers role to "FIX' associates, leaders or technicians. I would have an extreme problem ever trusting someone who has lacked integrity. Once Integrity is breached your relationship will forever change. I would cut him loose without a thought.....he obviously was not too concerned about his theft impact on you or your company.
    This topic has been on my mind all day...

    Something I see every day in my work, people getting to work drunk, or under the influence of one thing or the other, guys that work unsafe or work ridiculous hours leading to accidents. people who use their company gear at home, or use some equipment or materials for side jobs..

    All of them know that they cannot do what they do, and there will be repercussions when caught... So why do they do it? Bad people?
    Or maybe there is just a culture where they don't consider themselves "that wrong or bad'...

    The managers (sorry TMT, I picked your post but it could have been others..) they get fired by.. They see them drive their company cars for social events, see them use their company phones for social calls during work hours, see them pick up the bill for lunch, even social lunches and put them on a company account... Somehow there is a culture that it's perfectly normal for office staff to use company pens and stationary, but also stamps, expense accounts and whatever for personal use, and in my clients that will never be marked as theft or breaching integrity...

    But it does set an example, doesn't it?

  19. #19
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Uber Star TMTBOUND's Avatar
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    well.......I believe if you set solid expectations with crystal clear direction, you can get whatever result you desire. I think if you are loose with every rule and expectation, all things become negotiable. Which is worse IMO because the people have no idea where the line is as a whole. But in this instance.....I am sure theft would be universally abhorrent to most employers and associates should clearly understand that. Using laxity in enforcement of taking a pencil home accidentally should never cloak the responsibility one should take for their own actions that clearly violated a different set of standards IMO.

  20. #20
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน RakThai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMTBOUND View Post
    well.......I believe if you set solid expectations with crystal clear direction, you can get whatever result you desire. I think if you are loose with every rule and expectation, all things become negotiable. Which is worse IMO because the people have no idea where the line is as a whole. But in this instance.....I am sure theft would be universally abhorrent to most employers and associates should clearly understand that. Using laxity in enforcement of taking a pencil home accidentally should never cloak the responsibility one should take for their own actions that clearly violated a different set of standards IMO.
    Fully agree! " if you set solid expectations with crystal clear direction"....

    Understand that my job is in that grey zone... Where rules can and will be bend, where something can be perfectly normal one day, but wrong the next, or something can be normal for one employee (usually management) but not for others..

    It was the first sentence of Jointy's OP.. "one of my most trusted and admired (brilliant mind and hard working) employees" that got me thinking...
    Good guys can make mistakes, do they deserve to get what it coming to them, or sometimes a little consideration and "alternative punishment" could make them even more committed?
    Or more basic, do people who made a mistake deserve a second chance?
    TMTBOUND likes this.

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