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Thread: New research identifies a ‘sea of despair’ among white, working-class Americans

  1. #1
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Cippy's Avatar
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    New research identifies a ‘sea of despair’ among white, working-class Americans

    Anne Case and Angus Deaton garnered national headlines in 2015 when they reported that the death rate of midlife non-Hispanic white Americans had risen steadily since 1999 in contrast with the death rates of blacks, Hispanics and Europeans. Their new study extends the data by two years and shows that whatever is driving the mortality spike is not easing up.

    The two Princeton professors say the trend affects whites of both sexes and is happening nearly everywhere in the country. Education level is significant: People with a college degree report better health and happiness than those with only some college, who in turn are doing much better than those who never went.

    Offering what they call a tentative but “plausible” explanation, they write that less-educated white Americans who struggle in the job market in early adulthood are likely to experience a “cumulative disadvantage” over time, with health and personal problems that often lead to drug overdoses, alcohol-related liver disease and suicide.

    “Ultimately, we see our story as about the collapse of the white, high-school-educated working class after its heyday in the early 1970s, and the pathologies that accompany that decline,” they conclude.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-draw14&wpmm=1
    Never argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. M.T.

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    I think you could get away without a college education even to the 90's when I started in my business but you almost need an MBA now to get a job

    It is much more competitive and involved to get a job than 2 decades before

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Cippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcTwoSix View Post
    I think you could get away without a college education even to the 90's when I started in my business but you almost need an MBA now to get a job

    It is much more competitive and involved to get a job than 2 decades before
    Oh, so you can't get me a job? 555

    Yeah, A Bachelor's is about the equivalent of a high school degree from 40 years ago and many are being priced out of university in our "great" country compounded by a rising population, shrinking Job market and higher retirement ages. My brother is over $300,000 in debt and going to borrow again to finish his PhD Thesis. Student loan debt now is bigger than Credit card debt in the US.

    There are still a few trades out there that are reasonably affordable. I figure my wife's first nursing degree will cost me about $10,000 and the average salary is about 73,000/year (she checked 55). But then you have the job market flooded with foreign labor. Most nurses in my Area in LA seem to be Filipino. Hell, all the doctors are Indian. I looked around for white male doctor, none to be had. I wanted to discuss my health issues with someone I can relate to. I ended up with a Hispanic woman, the closest I could get.
    Never argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. M.T.

  4. #4
    Organic AI Quarky's Avatar
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    Is it because a lot of blue collar jobs have become automated or moved offshore?
    My only experience was in a pie making factory managing the gravy team


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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Cippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distantpeak View Post
    Is it because a lot of blue collar jobs have become automated or moved offshore?
    That too, that was what I meant by "shrinking job market." That is a whole subject itself.
    Never argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. M.T.

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน RakThai's Avatar
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    Melica is a strange country, never wanting to look forward, but always idolizing the past..

    Wars made money, especially WW1 and 2, so where can we create the next?
    Coal made us a fortune, so let's re-open the mines, regardless of the devastating effect of the strip-mines and slurry-ponds in the past..

    Most western countries look at specialization, yet the US does not, even though they have superiority in many fields..
    They import the knowledge in places like silicon valley.. while at the same time reducing education to a third world level..

    I wonder about the why?
    And I do not understand it.. is it about voters?
    jontymate likes this.

  7. #7
    Organic AI Quarky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post
    Melica is a strange country, never wanting to look forward, but always idolizing the past..

    Wars made money, especially WW1 and 2, so where can we create the next?
    Coal made us a fortune, so let's re-open the mines, regardless of the devastating effect of the strip-mines and slurry-ponds in the past..

    Most western countries look at specialization, yet the US does not, even though they have superiority in many fields..
    They import the knowledge in places like silicon valley.. while at the same time reducing education to a third world level..

    I wonder about the why?
    And I do not understand it.. is it about voters?
    Well all dynasties come to an end....

    I think it's more about egos...
    My only experience was in a pie making factory managing the gravy team


  8. #8
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post
    Melica is a strange country, never wanting to look forward, but always idolizing the past..

    Wars made money, especially WW1 and 2, so where can we create the next?
    Coal made us a fortune, so let's re-open the mines, regardless of the devastating effect of the strip-mines and slurry-ponds in the past..

    Most western countries look at specialization, yet the US does not, even though they have superiority in many fields..
    They import the knowledge in places like silicon valley.. while at the same time reducing education to a third world level..

    I wonder about the why?
    And I do not understand it.. is it about voters?
    It's just too god damn big

    But as you and DP said......it's also looking and holding onto the past.

  9. #9
    Foundation Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Sydney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cippy View Post
    Oh, so you can't get me a job? 555

    Yeah, A Bachelor's is about the equivalent of a high school degree from 40 years ago and many are being priced out of university in our "great" country compounded by a rising population, shrinking Job market and higher retirement ages. My brother is over $300,000 in debt and going to borrow again to finish his PhD Thesis. Student loan debt now is bigger than Credit card debt in the US.

    There are still a few trades out there that are reasonably affordable. I figure my wife's first nursing degree will cost me about $10,000 and the average salary is about 73,000/year (she checked 55). But then you have the job market flooded with foreign labor. Most nurses in my Area in LA seem to be Filipino. Hell, all the doctors are Indian. I looked around for white male doctor, none to be had. I wanted to discuss my health issues with someone I can relate to. I ended up with a Hispanic woman, the closest I could get.
    300,000 ??? ... man thats crazy ... i assume that is borrowed living costs and not just his Uni fees ... but whatever, he has basically given himself a mortgage to pay off once he has income

    This is a way complex area, the job market i mean, so many internal and external issues compounding together ... just one issue is the current generation entering the job market have being taught to only educate, train and get a job in something that is their passion in life ... well guess what people, that ain't going to work, it can't, peoples passions will never equate to "Consumers Demand" ... and "Demand" is getting filled by our immigrants

    For Australia, plumbers, electricans .. trades basically are fast earning more than a highly educated degree holding white collar worker who manly can't even get a job.

    Be a builder son, thats what i am telling my kids, with the current shortage of houses in Australia, a trade could give you the easy life .... start at 7.00 finish at 3.30, miss the peak hour traffic, work outside and keep fit ...
    Quarky and TLandHim like this.
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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Cippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post
    Melica is a strange country, never wanting to look forward, but always idolizing the past..

    Wars made money, especially WW1 and 2, so where can we create the next?
    Coal made us a fortune, so let's re-open the mines, regardless of the devastating effect of the strip-mines and slurry-ponds in the past..

    Most western countries look at specialization, yet the US does not, even though they have superiority in many fields..
    They import the knowledge in places like silicon valley.. while at the same time reducing education to a third world level..

    I wonder about the why?
    And I do not understand it.. is it about voters?
    The powers that be (GOP cough!) like the ever widening gap between the rich an poor. And many are so easily duped, fed the opiates of the masses.
    Never argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. M.T.

  11. #11
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydney View Post

    Be a builder son, thats what i am telling my kids, with the current shortage of houses in Australia, a trade could give you the easy life .... start at 7.00 finish at 3.30, miss the peak hour traffic, work outside and keep fit ...
    Also advice them not to eat absolute crap 555
    Always tons of construction in Vancouver and the construction workers are always in 7-11 buying all sorts of crap
    Obviously most are young and can afford to it a bit crappy
    Quarky likes this.

  12. #12
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Cippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydney View Post
    300,000 ??? ... man thats crazy ... i assume that is borrowed living costs and not just his Uni fees ... but whatever, he has basically given himself a mortgage to pay off once he has income

    This is a way complex area, the job market i mean, so many internal and external issues compounding together ... just one issue is the current generation entering the job market have being taught to only educate, train and get a job in something that is their passion in life ... well guess what people, that ain't going to work, it can't, peoples passions will never equate to "Consumers Demand" ... and "Demand" is getting filled by our immigrants

    For Australia, plumbers, electricans .. trades basically are fast earning more than a highly educated degree holding white collar worker who manly can't even get a job.

    Be a builder son, thats what i am telling my kids, with the current shortage of houses in Australia, a trade could give you the easy life .... start at 7.00 finish at 3.30, miss the peak hour traffic, work outside and keep fit ...
    Right? That is what I said when I heard that. I saw him borrow the maximum once, 27,000 for one semester of Graduate school, but he never finished that program. He is 47 by the way, went back to school to get his degree. He is teaching now and will probably make well north of six figures, he has in the past.

    Construction is very up and down, my father liked to tell me when I was that the way Construction workers stayed fed was having a wife with a job. 555

    But I do have a friend from High school who has his own industrial pluming business and it doing very well.
    Never argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. M.T.

  13. #13
    Foundation Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Sydney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cippy View Post
    Construction is very up and down, my father liked to tell me when I was that the way Construction workers stayed fed was having a wife with a job. 555
    Depends on the city you are working in .. Sydney will grow from 4.9 million to 8 million people in the next 25 years .... that's a lot of construction .. and for the past 10 years the building industry has being all one way .... this is a huge and extended purple patch for this city with no sign of it letting up

    Edit: also forgot to add, we are spending about 50 billion in infrastructure over the next 4 years ... there is hospitals, new train lines, road tunnels and all sorts of shite going on across Sydney .. lived here 32 years but never seen it like this before .... there is cranes in the air everywhere
    Last edited by Sydney; 24th March 2017 at 11:15.
    The only thing that will stop you from fulfilling your dreams is you.

  14. #14
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Changone's Avatar
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    But given the massive property boom in Sydney (Sydney... 555) don't you think there could one day be an end to the boom times for builders? I guess if you've made your fortune by then though, you could always switch into sales...

  15. #15
    Foundation Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Sydney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Changone View Post
    But given the massive property boom in Sydney (Sydney... 555) don't you think there could one day be an end to the boom times for builders? I guess if you've made your fortune by then though, you could always switch into sales...
    Yeah there always has to be a end i guess, but the problem is no one is getting it right when this end will be .. some of the so called best economists are continually having to eat their hats over the last two years, in fact even longer from my memory, but some people try to forget that ..555

    The economists with integrity are writing articles now saying they got it wrong, below is an example of this ...

    Personally i am not eating any hats ..555 .... i laughed off the predicted 40% correction 4 years ago as ridiculous and i am still laughing off any suggestion of a 10 to 15% correction overall ... yes it will slow, maybe even 10% for high end properties ... but mid to low end 5% at most .. but for the last 30 years in Sydney any drop or flat period that i have witnessed only last 6 months, 12 at very most, then off it goes again .

    But as myself and JC have repeatably said, supply and demand is the main key ..... immigrants come to the cities that have the most work ... and if we are going to keep importing 100 to 200K new poeple every year, they need a dwelling to live in ..... this is what amazes me with the so called economists, supply and demand slightly overrules most other factors including the state of the economy, interest rates are 2nd crucial ... this isn't the retail space we are talking about ... people will stop buying shoes if the economy goes bad .. but they never stop spending on the house, just ask Mr Bunnings ..555 hardwares stores are virtually recession proof

    https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/iv...222938146.html
    Last edited by Sydney; 24th March 2017 at 11:57.
    The only thing that will stop you from fulfilling your dreams is you.

  16. #16
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Changone's Avatar
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    The Sydney phenomenon, because that's what it is in relation to other parts of Australia, is not unique.
    It could be considered the "Monaco" of South East Asia. A place where people from surrounding countries can take advantage of stable government with predictable taxation and business conditions. With a second Casino almost ready, money laundering is a mere afterthought. Like Monaco, the community needs services, but most cannot afford to live where they work, so people travel in and out from sattelite communities where regular work is not so readily available.
    We can't call it a "Principality" though, but we can make it official by renaming it the "Sydney special economic zone".
    Sydney likes this.

  17. #17
    Foundation Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Sydney's Avatar
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    ^^^ thats pretty much it .... although i could add that many can afford it, well afford it in false ways

    When interest are at record lows, you could almost guarantee that debt levels would be at record highs ? ...... this is how its afforded for the majority.

    Think about it .. your house is worth 1 million, it goes up 10% in 12 months, so now 1.1 million ( 100,000 dollars up, more than the same years income and tax free !! )

    You are struggling to pay the bills, you really want that new 4K TV but its $2000 and wont fit on the maxed out credit cards ..what do you do ?

    You say to yourself, i reckon its time to change banks anyway, we can get a better rate right ? ... ohh and lets borrow a bit more to pay off the 5 credit cards ..


    12 months later rinse and repeat ..... so easy to afford to live in Sydney ..555
    The only thing that will stop you from fulfilling your dreams is you.

  18. #18
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Bacon's Avatar
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    No education means low income, means bad health care. And in absence of a national health care system average life expectancy goes back down. The irony is that it's the flag waving, low income hicks that were foaming at the mouth the most about Obama care.
    Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.


  19. #19
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน justcruzing1's Avatar
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    I agree with Sydney's summation but there is some serious concern among the banking regulators, not that they are expecting a crash but they are damping things down.

    Just on 12 months ago they directed the major banks to use 8.2% as qualifying calculations on all new loans, and extend the repayment capacity on existing investment loans at the same 8.1%, even though the loan rate was 4.6??

    Well now they have hedged it back to 7.1% so obviously the tightening they put in 12 months ago has worked well enough for them to ease up on the reins, however it is still tight for investors with say a couple or three existing properties to qualify to get another one.

    The aim of all this was to use a backdoor method to change, only slightly, the market structure. Reduce the investor numbers, give owner occupiers a bit more chance but also to make sure if things suddenly explode in the interest rates, due to an external force, then the public still have the repayment capacity. So no property meltdown.

    I don't know about Sydney and Melbourne at the moment, but I can tell you here in the Nth side of Brisbane, land estates the blocks are going up at $1,000 per week. Have been for 12-15 months and only now there are signs of valuation problems.

    Many, especially the dearer locations are coming in valued at up to $50k under contract price but the developers are pushing on with the increases.

    Now things are starting to come back to a balance, or will in the short term as the public can't afford to keep borrowing larger sums, they are qualified at 7.1% paying big money for the land so have little left for the house, and that's the problem I am facing every day.

    In the old days you bought a block, then built a home on it at around 2 times the cost of the block. then it dropped back to even spend on both, now the block is $400k and they are left with $200k for the build.

    It is funny how things change, the signs of change are occurring now, estates that you had to win a ballot to get a block are now advertising on TV, the same land salespeople that never returned your request for stock updates are now coming and visiting me.

    If I survive the next say 6-8 months it will be very interesting to see where the balance of power is.
    Sydney, Minder and Bacon like this.
    "Of course you love me darling, I handsome man 55555"

  20. #20
    Organic AI Quarky's Avatar
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    Plumbers and electricians are always in short supply here... and earn a packet... building boom or not.. there is always maintenance.... and if you have both plumbing and electrician skills.. the world is your bathroom... 55
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    My only experience was in a pie making factory managing the gravy team


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