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Thread: What type of margin?

  1. #21
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Changone View Post
    Usually there are too many variables to stick to one exact formula.
    For example, Family considerations often overtake business principles unless you separate the two.
    The bottom line is she couldn't do this business without her brothers, the way it needs to be staffed given the fractured work they get with growing the business
    She can't afford to keep full time employees and it's hard for her to source reliable workers for sporadic work........if they are available for that type of work, that is usually for a reason and not a good one.

    With her brothers working MB taxi and making decent money but being skilled laborers(they installed and maintenced electronic doors) it works out perfectly.

    She pays them double what they'd make doing the same job anywhere else........so for now, they are happy but you never know down the road

  2. #22
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    When I worked in construction, it was usually fixed costs plus 30%. That way if things went south you didn't have to go back to the client and ask for extra money because of cost overruns. But if she can make a good margin at 15-20% she can still charge 30% and link the price to performance to justify the high price or she can start at 30% and offer a 10% discount in return for a letter of reference, business leads or a promise of more work from them down the line.
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  3. #23
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน jontymate's Avatar
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    They way I have always worked is not cost plus 30% but return on investment is 30% So Cost plus 30% on $100.00 is $130.00

    ROI is $143. 00 As the figures get bigger difference is bigger. Yes in many countries. This also includes my wage to make a profit on top of that but look at moving a little for market forces. Then net profit for this is 7-12% after EBIT once if run well, again this is not cost plus but ROI. This covers the risk over a longer term of not getting paid etc. The administration Etc

    You need to look at it as ROI putting your money elsewhere. If you are shelling out before you get paid.

    Cash flow neutral that is getting paid as the job progresses and no out of pocket expenses I will go as low as 20% ROI

    Cash flow positive. That is getting paid up front I will go as low as 15% ROI. Still need to have margin for problems. These are my minimums and often a hell of a lot more if specific skills are bought in.

    These are the numbers that most business work on or should to have enough to improve skills, plant and equipment renewal and R&D and advertising.
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  4. #24
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Changone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcTwoSix View Post
    The bottom line is she couldn't do this business without her brothers, the way it needs to be staffed given the fractured work they get with growing the business
    She can't afford to keep full time employees and it's hard for her to source reliable workers for sporadic work........if they are available for that type of work, that is usually for a reason and not a good one.

    With her brothers working MB taxi and making decent money but being skilled laborers(they installed and maintenced electronic doors) it works out perfectly.

    She pays them double what they'd make doing the same job anywhere else........so for now, they are happy but you never know down the road
    This is a much more common situation than most people will let on.
    Another reason why simply "Running the numbers" won't help.
    All the while the boys are on board she should do well and probably be way more flexible than the competition.
    There may come a time when she can't get their support, but it sounds like a good setup for now.
    Ao also has plenty of room to move on rates etc, as well as to pick and choose the jobs she takes on.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontymate View Post
    They way I have always worked is not cost plus 30% but return on investment is 30% So Cost plus 30% on $100.00 is $130.00

    ROI is $143. 00 As the figures get bigger difference is bigger. Yes in many countries. This also includes my wage to make a profit on top of that but look at moving a little for market forces. Then net profit for this is 7-12% after EBIT once if run well, again this is not cost plus but ROI. This covers the risk over a longer term of not getting paid etc. The administration Etc

    You need to look at it as ROI putting your money elsewhere. If you are shelling out before you get paid.

    Cash flow neutral that is getting paid as the job progresses and no out of pocket expenses I will go as low as 20% ROI

    Cash flow positive. That is getting paid up front I will go as low as 15% ROI. Still need to have margin for problems. These are my minimums and often a hell of a lot more if specific skills are bought in.

    These are the numbers that most business work on or should to have enough to improve skills, plant and equipment renewal and R&D and advertising.
    That's true. Opens up a whole new area of contract bidding to get the job where it's not so much as sticking to a particular margin but sometimes taking a hit in profits to get your foot in the door. The bigger the business the more you have to factor in other costs (not associated with the individual project) like marketing, sales people, business licences, tax, safety certifications, office rent. Though it doesn't sound like her business is registered, is it straight up cash jobs, nothing on the books?
    Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck.

  6. #26
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley View Post
    That's true. Opens up a whole new area of contract bidding to get the job where it's not so much as sticking to a particular margin but sometimes taking a hit in profits to get your foot in the door. The bigger the business the more you have to factor in other costs (not associated with the individual project) like marketing, sales people, business licences, tax, safety certifications, office rent. Though it doesn't sound like her business is registered, is it straight up cash jobs, nothing on the books?
    Her business will soon be registered.
    She actually has to be registered to take the bigger jobs that she was turning down...

    She will be registered after these 2 decent jobs are over.

    And she has definitely been smart in taking less for jobs that will advance the company....that she can market to other potential customers

  7. #27
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน jontymate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcTwoSix View Post
    Her business will soon be registered.
    She actually has to be registered to take the bigger jobs that she was turning down...

    She will be registered after these 2 decent jobs are over.

    And she has definitely been smart in taking less for jobs that will advance the company....that she can market to other potential customers
    Pauly good on you for thinking about your partner that is no longer with you. Takes a great guy to care.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontymate View Post
    Pauly good on you for thinking about your partner that is no longer with you. Takes a great guy to care.
    Well thanks
    But we are just separated.....we don't know what we are doing.

    But even if we were divorced......I've known my wife for 14 years
    She will be in my life for a lot longer still......regardless

    But thanks for the post.....

    And I'm still taking care of holidays too 555
    She currently enjoying a nice pool villa in Hua Hin with her family!

  9. #29
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน jontymate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcTwoSix View Post
    Well thanks
    But we are just separated.....we don't know what we are doing.

    But even if we were divorced......I've known my wife for 14 years
    She will be in my life for a lot longer still......regardless

    But thanks for the post.....

    And I'm still taking care of holidays too 555
    She currently enjoying a nice pool villa in Hua Hin with her family!



    Firstly sorry to be presumptuous about your status. It is your business and your's alone.


    I have what most people consider a weird dynamic with my EX the mother of my children. I only recently stopped paying for her medical insurance. My ex is somewhat troubled with mental health issues. That said I married her and promised in sickness and health. I could not live with her and more so let her be toxic to my (our) children. The love had died but not the loyalty of spending the time and her encouragement of me to be who I am. That was 20 years ago.

    It's been very difficult to manage over the years I have been with Dao. But all see including my children and Dao that responsibilities don't end because life is hard and has hurdles.

    My children both now earn over $100K a year, own properties and live practically rent free with us. So I handed over the batten of their mothers' health care to them.

    The dynamic with my kid's grandparents from their mothers side and Dao will seem even weirder to most. They were at our marriage in LOS and have gone back a few times to visit Dao's parents and helped them out financially. We're all family so to speak.

    Pauly we all have our own dynamic of what is family and what works. No matter what the situation nam Jai works!!!!!
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  10. #30
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    Ao just completed her 1st job the hotel owner hired her for

    He wanted new signage in 3 areas of his hotel....including a big sign on the 10th floor.

    She basically contracted the fabrication and labor out and was the project manager

    The owner told her what he wanted and she went out and sourced it. Was hands on throughout the process of fabrication and managed the installation.

    Honestly, I didn't think the job was as big when she was explaining it.
    She made pretty good money but more importantly the hotel owner loves her and seems like a good guy to get in with.....owns 6 hotels so not only work she can do for him.....but I'd assume he'd know some decent business owners for word of mouth
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcTwoSix View Post
    Ao just completed her 1st job the hotel owner hired her for

    He wanted new signage in 3 areas of his hotel....including a big sign on the 10th floor.

    She basically contracted the fabrication and labor out and was the project manager

    The owner told her what he wanted and she went out and sourced it. Was hands on throughout the process of fabrication and managed the installation.

    Honestly, I didn't think the job was as big when she was explaining it.
    She made pretty good money but more importantly the hotel owner loves her and seems like a good guy to get in with.....owns 6 hotels so not only work she can do for him.....but I'd assume he'd know some decent business owners for word of mouth
    Looking good. This kind of work is like herding cats sometimes, with the sort of stress and worries that you take to bed with you some nights.
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    My business mentor reckons what ever I can get away with whilst still giving myself a good chance of winning the job. I usually work off smaller margins on bigger items (no brainier there).
    Food fishing and furballs

  13. #33
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    Ao's business is still doing pretty well.

    She finally got paid after doing that big truck wrapping job.

    Her only issue (which isn't bad) was she has been only been getting offered big jobs that she has had to turn down because she didn't have the proper equipment.
    So went in 50/50 on a few safety harnesses that will allow them to do much bigger jobs now.

    2 of the brothers are already trained in doing jobs at Heights.


    Honestly, the way this business is going, if things work out for her and I we could possibly grow this into a much bigger business I think if we wanted to
    But it would entail me living there and something I'm not wanting to do at the moment.
    But with as big as companies that she is getting jobs with now I think we could go to the Western hotels and try and get business from them.

    I have a deal in place at work that I can work 2months and take 3 weeks off.
    But have some accounts coming on that I need to be around for

    But if I can do that, maybe I can see where the business can go
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  14. #34
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    Paulie why carnt you move to Bangkok? If this business is as good as you say it coukd be a good way to build a business and fix your marrage issue at the same time.

    Sorry if I missed the reason for not moving to LOS.

  15. #35
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    Year 1997, my product was being sold at let's say on the average 135 Baht per meter. We were making it at about 50 Baht per meter so the margin would be about 150%.

    Year 2007, the price was still around 135 Baht per meter. The production cost have increased, but the margin was still above 100%.

    And then BOOM!

    Year 2008, the price becomes below 100 Baht per meter, thanks to Chinese product. And for the next ten years, our price has gone down continuously and currently it is at 50 Baht per meter. Our production cost now is about 60 something so the margin is... negative something, I don't know somebody give me an aspirin.
    Last edited by GGrass; 13th July 2017 at 12:23.
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  16. #36
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OZZYGUY View Post
    Paulie why carnt you move to Bangkok? If this business is as good as you say it coukd be a good way to build a business and fix your marrage issue at the same time.

    Sorry if I missed the reason for not moving to LOS.
    Ummm.... because I love Vancouver!!! 5555

    And it's hard to walk away from my job. I make extremely good money on basically my own terms
    Most of my business travel is back East so I see my close friends and family often and on the company dime.
    I only work until 1pm and often leave early and have about double holiday time than most people.
    I've worked many years to get to this position so hard to walk away from all that.

    I've been away for 2 weeks and I genuinely miss the office and can't wait to see the guys I work with.
    That's hard to come by.

    But if I get these accounts settled and start doing the 2months/3 weeks schedule I think that would be ideal


    I've also decided no matter how well Ao and I do, she needs to be in Bangkok until my stepson graduates high school regardless of her business.

    But I look at her business as only a good thing.
    Something we may be able to build or something that she can legitimately make money at if we were totally finished.
    Plus the amount of pride she is getting through building this business on her own is immeasurable.....worth as much as the money
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  17. #37
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    Makes sense.

    I understand your attraction to Vancouver. The short amount of time I spend there this time last year was awesome. WOW that year went fast.

    I to have my reasons for staying in Perth and not wanting to move to Asia however it is still in the back of my head....55

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcTwoSix View Post
    Ummm.... because I love Vancouver!!! 5555

    And it's hard to walk away from my job. I make extremely good money on basically my own terms
    Most of my business travel is back East so I see my close friends and family often and on the company dime.
    I only work until 1pm and often leave early and have about double holiday time than most people.
    I've worked many years to get to this position so hard to walk away from all that.

    I've been away for 2 weeks and I genuinely miss the office and can't wait to see the guys I work with.
    That's hard to come by.

    But if I get these accounts settled and start doing the 2months/3 weeks schedule I think that would be ideal


    I've also decided no matter how well Ao and I do, she needs to be in Bangkok until my stepson graduates high school regardless of her business.

    But I look at her business as only a good thing.
    Something we may be able to build or something that she can legitimately make money at if we were totally finished.
    Plus the amount of pride she is getting through building this business on her own is immeasurable.....worth as much as the money

  18. #38
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน OZZYGUY's Avatar
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    GG are the Chinese prices increasing? Production costs in China has increased a lot over the past 10 years from what I have experienced. A lot of company's that buy out of China now look at VN & Indo as well as other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by GGrass View Post
    Year 1997, my product was being sold at let's say on the average 135 Baht per meter. We were making it at about 50 Baht per meter so the margin would be about 150%.

    Year 2007, the price was still around 135 Baht per meter. The production cost have increased, but the margin was still above 100%.

    And then BOOM!

    Year 2008, the price becomes below 100 Baht per meter, thanks to Chinese product. And for the next ten years, our price has gone down continuously and currently it is at 50 Baht per meter. Our production cost now is about 60 something so the margin is... negative something, I don't know somebody give me an aspirin.

  19. #39
    Cadet Gold GGrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OZZYGUY View Post
    GG are the Chinese prices increasing? Production costs in China has increased a lot over the past 10 years from what I have experienced. A lot of company's that buy out of China now look at VN & Indo as well as other places.
    The Chinese are selling at around 1.00 USD per meter, CIF Bangkok. Since 2007 or 2008, it became tax free, so the importers are loving it. They buy it at 1, no tax, only some shipping charges, they can sell it at 2.00 USD and be happy. So they're offering the customer anywhere from 50 to 70 Baht. As for me, since the 300 B/day incident, and with the increasing price of everything, you do the math... the production cost is at about 60.

    The Chinese price of 1 USD per meter is unreasonable. It's a dumping price, not a real price.
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  20. #40
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OZZYGUY View Post
    Makes sense.

    I understand your attraction to Vancouver. The short amount of time I spend there this time last year was awesome. WOW that year went fast.

    I to have my reasons for staying in Perth and not wanting to move to Asia however it is still in the back of my head....55
    I don't really have a desire to Asia although I think I would enjoy it if I did...

    Before I wanted to live there because it was so different but now being in Central America, being in a different culture but still having a lot of similarities is appealing to me.

    I could easily see myself spending a good portion of my time in Panama City at some point.

    I went back this time to see if I'd like it a 2nd time and liked it even better
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