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Thread: Can you be proud of things you have no control over?

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    Can you be proud of things you have no control over?

    Someone said something to me recently which annoyed me and intrigued me in equal measure. I said I was proud of the Irish Rugby team for winning. They disregarded it and said I could not be proud of things I have no control over and had no interaction in. They pointed out I could be happy they won but my pride was misplaced.

    I questioned further and said I was proud of being Irish. I am proud of our history, culture and people and the fact we have practically built the roads. For such a small nation, we have had a huge impact in most countries and for that I am proud. He said I was being stupid and said where you are born is an accident of birth and compared it to having blue eyes or being over 6 foot. Told him up to him.

    But got me thinking, is it stupid to be proud of things that you didnít do or should pride be a self centered thing and can only feel the emotion if we created the act behind it?

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    Phaisan is gonna have a raging boner with this one!!
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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    The pride is not with just being born there


    The pride is how the collective acts and bonds together in the place their were born

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcTwoSix View Post
    The pride is not with just being born there


    The pride is how the collective acts and bonds together in the place their were born
    Completely agree. But he found it ridiculous. I said I was proud of my nephew who performed in a play. He said unless I raised the child or taught him his lines I couldn’t be proud of his achievement. On the other forum in the UFC thread when I said mcgregor beating Aldo was one of the proudest nights as an Irishman, one poster said it was strange as mcgregor did it for himself and couldn’t give a sh1t about me so it was stupid being proud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Notorius View Post
    Completely agree. But he found it ridiculous. I said I was proud of my nephew who performed in a play. He said unless I raised the child or taught him his lines I couldn’t be proud of his achievement. On the other forum in the UFC thread when I said mcgregor beating Aldo was one of the proudest nights as an Irishman, one poster said it was strange as mcgregor did it for himself and couldn’t give a sh1t about me so it was stupid being proud.
    Haha
    I thought this post sounded like Joey!

    I didn't know it was you

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcTwoSix View Post
    Haha
    I thought this post sounded like Joey!

    I didn't know it was you
    Thought it was obvious. Sure notorius username would give it away.

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    Although I tend to agree with you on all this it can get a bit overboard too

    I love my American football team and sports is a huge part of the culture in Boston
    I'd actually say it is the dominant cultural aspect of Boston

    But in the last 15 years our sports teams have had a ton of success and I do think Bostonians do take their identity from that too much

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    Quote Originally Posted by Notorius View Post
    Someone said something to me recently which annoyed me and intrigued me in equal measure. I said I was proud of the Irish Rugby team for winning. They disregarded it and said I could not be proud of things I have no control over and had no interaction in. They pointed out I could be happy they won but my pride was misplaced.

    I questioned further and said I was proud of being Irish. I am proud of our history, culture and people and the fact we have practically built the roads. For such a small nation, we have had a huge impact in most countries and for that I am proud. He said I was being stupid and said where you are born is an accident of birth and compared it to having blue eyes or being over 6 foot. Told him up to him.

    But got me thinking, is it stupid to be proud of things that you didn’t do or should pride be a self centered thing and can only feel the emotion if we created the act behind it?
    Your contact was absolutely correct.

    You can only be proud of a personal achievement, not a given.

    You can be respectful or even in awe of and have appreciation toward your ancestors but you are not responsible for them so, unless you can equally bear the guilt and shame of their wrongdoings (were they slave-traders?) as well as applaud their achievements - how can their success or failure be laid at your door? How can you own it as they did?

    You can love your country and be respectful towards and appreciative of its armies, sportsmen, industry leaders, intellectuals but you cannot be proud of them because they are not of your doing although, if you have an input in their triumph, you can be proud of that part.

    If you co-wrote "A Day in the Life" you can be proud of your part in its success and also proud of the record as a whole because of your part in it.

    But, no.

    You cannot be proud to be Irish (any National) per se unless you have overseen every aspect of it since its formation.

    Because you can only be proud of you, your achievement, your influence.

    Maybe our vocabulary is too restrictive and we need a NEW word for what you describe and erroneously attribute to pride.

    I would suggest "adogwithtwodicks" as in "I'm adogwithtwodicks about Ireland winning the cup".

    What do you think?
    Last edited by BunnyGee; 24th March 2018 at 12:55.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyGee View Post
    Your contact was absolutely correct.

    You can only be proud of a personal achievement, not a given.

    You can be respectful or even in awe of and have appreciation toward your ancestors but you are not responsible for them so, unless you can equally bear the guilt and shame of their wrongdoings (were they slave-traders?) as well as applaud their achievements - how can their success or failure be laid at your door? How can you own it as they did?

    You can love your country and be respectful towards and appreciative of its armies, sportsmen, industry leaders, intellectuals but you cannot be proud of them because they are not of your doing although, if you have an input in their triumph, you can be proud of that part.

    If you co-wrote "A Day in the Life" you can be proud of your part in its success and also proud of the record as a whole because of your part in it.

    But, no.

    You cannot be proud to be Irish (any National) per se unless you have overseen every aspect of it since its formation.

    Because you can only be proud of you, your work, your influence.
    No one can tell me how to feel. If I feel pride that is my personal emotion. Similarly if I feel disgust with what someone did that is up to me. Do I disregard that because I had no hand in it. Being Irish is a major part of me and I am proud of my country and it’s achievements. If you don’t feel the same, i respect that.

    I feel sad that people can’t share in something. Take Mcgregor. Walking in he was draped in our flag. He had one of our biggest stars sing a song about our rebellious past. He won in front of the world and beat a true champion. He thanked his fellow countrymen. All that filled me with pride. My feeling. No one else can take that away from. E.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Notorius View Post
    No one can tell me how to feel. If I feel pride that is my personal emotion. Similarly if I feel disgust with what someone did that is up to me. Do I disregard that because I had no hand in it. Being Irish is a major part of me and I am proud of my country and itís achievements. If you donít feel the same, i respect that.

    I feel sad that people canít share in something. Take Mcgregor. Walking in he was draped in our flag. He had one of our biggest stars sing a song about our rebellious past. He won in front of the world and beat a true champion. He thanked his fellow countrymen. All that filled me with pride. My feeling. No one else can take that away from. E.
    So you were adogwithtwodicks about it then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyGee View Post
    So you were adogwithtwodicks about it then?
    Haven’t a clue what that means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Notorius View Post
    Havenít a clue what that means.
    I'm adogwithtwodicks about being English but am also adogwithtwodicks that my daddy was Irish yet I cannot be adogwithtwodicks about Ireland, or being Irish, whilst it is split in two factions so close yet so far apart........ for what?

    I take no adogwithtwodicksness from that. It's twentyfuckineighteen, fer chrissakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyGee View Post
    I'm adogwithtwodicks about being English but am also adogwithtwodicks that my daddy was Irish yet I cannot be adogwithtwodicks about Ireland, or being Irish, whilst it is split in two factions so close yet so far apart........ for what?

    I take no adogwithtwodicksness from that. It's twentyfuckineighteen, fer chrissakes.
    I don’t know what you are trying to say. The dog thing I don’t what it means. I never said anything about factions etc. you can be proud of dual nationalities. Of course. Are you being provocative for a reason. My mother is English. No anti sentiment here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Notorius View Post
    I donít know what you are trying to say. The dog thing I donít what it means. I never said anything about factions etc. you can be proud of dual nationalities. Of course. Are you being provocative for a reason. My mother is English. No anti sentiment here.
    Sorry, I thought you got it but was playing with me.

    adogwithtwodicks = A Dog With Two Dicks. What could be better than that? It's a saying where I come from as in:

    "Were you happy?"

    "I was like a dog with two dicks"

    Not deliberately provocative at all, if you are provoked that is your matter as is our right to be offended whether or not offence was intended by anyone at any time towards us (albeit that that is our shit to deal with, not necessarily theirs).

    At the end of the day, all I'm saying is that the word "proud" is widely but incorrectly employed in place of a word that likely does not exist to convey how we just somehow feel about something, hence my inventing one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyGee View Post
    Sorry, I thought you got it but was playing with me.

    adogwithtwodicks = A Dog With Two Dicks. What could be better than that? It's a saying where I come from as in:

    "Were you happy?"

    "I was like a dog with two dicks"

    Not deliberately provocative at all, if you are provoked that is your matter as is our right to be offended whether or not offence was intended by anyone at any time towards us (albeit that that is our shit to deal with, not necessarily theirs).

    At the end of the day, all I'm saying is that the word "proud" is widely but incorrectly employed in place of a word that likely does not exist to convey how we just somehow feel about something, hence my inventing one.
    That makes slightly mores sense. The provocative comment was in relation to the 2019 comment and talking about factions in Ireland/UK. I hadn't mentioned anything like that so I was confused.

    With regards to using the word proud instead of a word that hasn't been invented yet is an interesting argument. How about this as trying to explain. When I saw the photo of the syrian child dead on the beach. I felt sad even though I had no part to play in that childs death. When someone close to me I felt sad too and it felt the same.

    If the feeling I have feels the same for example when I win a case, land a client or do something using my talents feels the same when an Irishman/woman wins an olympic medal, wows the world wth a song or literature etc. I am not going to make a word up for it. Because it is a personal feeling and emotion I can classify it the way I want.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notorius View Post
    I felt sad even though I had no part to play in that childs death.
    I note (and am pleased that) you used the word "sad" not "ashamed". Because why should someone feel ashamed (even though they may feel grief) for something they had neither a part in nor control of.

    The same goes for the word "pride" in antonym fashion. You see?

    Yes you can "do what you want" or "say what you want". Nobody can deny you the right to be wrong, if you choose.

    If you still don't get it, I give up and just hope I ain't never your client, as a result.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyGee View Post
    I note (and am pleased that) you used the word "sad" not "ashamed". Because why should someone feel ashamed (even though they may feel grief) for something they had neither a part in nor control of.

    The same goes for the word "pride" in antonym fashion. You see?

    Yes you can "do what you want" or "say what you want". Nobody can deny you the right to be wrong, if you choose.

    If you still don't get it, I give up and just hope I ain't never your client, as a result.
    Bit of a strange comment. Why make a jibe about someone's profession? Have to remain emotionless at work and don't judge people. I have given up criminal law so cant be a client, but wouldn't wish that on anyone either as you would have to have been accused of a pretty heinous crime to have been a client. Never lost though so they were pretty lucky to have been my clients.

    I don't understand why you feel that you are right and I choose to be wrong. That appears to be saying that I am emotionally immature or stunted that I have no clue what I am feeling and should change my opinions based on a few posts from a stranger on the internet. I have respect for the way other people think and feel and will engage in debate. I would never try and change someones mind, belittle what they do because they don't agree with me and bow out. Professional and personal life is two separate things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notorius View Post
    Bit of a strange comment. Why make a jibe about someone's profession? Have to remain emotionless at work and don't judge people. I have given up criminal law so cant be a client, but wouldn't wish that on anyone either as you would have to have been accused of a pretty heinous crime to have been a client. Never lost though so they were pretty lucky to have been my clients.

    I don't understand why you feel that you are right and I choose to be wrong. That appears to be saying that I am emotionally immature or stunted that I have no clue what I am feeling and should change my opinions based on a few posts from a stranger on the internet. I have respect for the way other people think and feel and will engage in debate. I would never try and change someones mind, belittle what they do because they don't agree with me and bow out. Professional and personal life is two separate things.
    You waived your discipline in the air, I reacted.

    I didn't say you are wrong I said you have the right to choose to be. Some consider it a choice rather than a state.

    Do you?

    Read over the "few posts from a stranger on the internet" again and revert, at your leisure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyGee View Post
    I note (and am pleased that) you used the word "sad" not "ashamed". Because why should someone feel ashamed (even though they may feel grief) for something they had neither a part in nor control of.

    The same goes for the word "pride" in antonym fashion. You see?

    Yes you can "do what you want" or "say what you want". Nobody can deny you the right to be wrong, if you choose.

    If you still don't get it, I give up and just hope I ain't never your client, as a result.
    Of course you can be proud of a civic collective

    You ARE part of that collective

    Every one makes it up

    I am proud of being from Boston
    I am proud of the toughness, I am proud of the family values among a host of other things

    And that is a collective not just me but I am part of it.....hence I can take pride in it

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    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyGee View Post
    I note (and am pleased that) you used the word "sad" not "ashamed". Because why should someone feel ashamed (even though they may feel grief) for something they had neither a part in nor control of.

    The same goes for the word "pride" in antonym fashion. You see?

    Yes you can "do what you want" or "say what you want". Nobody can deny you the right to be wrong, if you choose.

    If you still don't get it, I give up and just hope I ain't never your client, as a result.
    We forgive you for being wrong, again, Bunnygee.
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and promoted by a sick mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end!

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