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Thread: Face concept

  1. #1
    Guest Platinum daohoshi Dao's Avatar
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    Face concept

    Today with my Aussie family I think for a subject to talk about. Because I not see before.

    Saving face. One friend of family (expert on Thailand 555). My sister(in-law) husbands mother. She missionary go to Thailand 3 times a year and give me a bible in Thai for my present.

    Said that face concept and "True" Buddhism is not possible. I never see her before so I did not say anything when she ask me this statement.

    This start the family discussion that went load so I go fishing with the children.

    Important to talk about here for other people.

  2. #2
    Frequent Flyer kaptainrob's Avatar
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    Funny you should raise this subject. We had farang 'missionaries' calling around our mooban last week. The young one was quite a looker too ... but I digress. What on earth do missionaries hope to achieve in Thailand? Buddhism is so strong. It's a beautiful religion which parallels christian beliefs yet with better teachings.

    You did the right thing ... I would have been very rude in similar circumstances.
    Cheers, Rob.
    Lifes journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but to skid in sideways totally worn out, shouting: holy s.h.i.t what a ride!

  3. #3
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Uber Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Nomad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daohoshi Dao View Post
    Said that face concept and "True" Buddhism is not possible.
    What would you like to have said Dao?

    Did she explain her thinking?
    "Don't wait around for your life to happen to you. Find something that makes you happy and do it. Everything else is just background noise." George Mason

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    Foundation Member Uber Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Gazmac's Avatar
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    Personally i think that was soooooo wrong giving you a bible ! Written in Thai or not ! Obviously has no concept of how deep Buddism is entrenched into normal Thai life ! Let alone the people !

  5. #5
    Foundation Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Sydney's Avatar
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    What annoys me so much with christen beliefs and i have heard it so many times, is the line .... buddhism is not a religion its a way of life.......wtf ...so what is any religion? aren't they all a way of life ?

    How many times have you meet a monk and they have tried to thrust a bible or some prophet insription down your throat

    Have a look down history and try and tell me what religion has done wrong, haven't read recently about some buddhisd monk up on sexual abuse charges !!

    Sorry but this subject riles me........giving a thai a bible, what a insult...akin to telling a catholic the pope is gay !!
    Last edited by Sydney; 25th December 2012 at 22:48.
    The only thing that will stop you from fulfilling your dreams is you.

  6. #6
    Foundation Member Uber Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Gazmac's Avatar
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    You would think that if this person was going to Thailand 3 times a year she would know how much of an insult it was !!! Missionary or not ! Obviously cant get any converts in Thailand so trying to get her quota back here in OZ !

  7. #7
    Foundation Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Sydney's Avatar
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    Missionary work, well you can't say some of what they do is bad thing, especially in some very poor countries like africa, helping anyone that needs help is a noble thing, and doing it at your own cost and in your own time, again very noble

    Leaving your bible at home and going to help with no other motive....now thats the most noble you can get
    The only thing that will stop you from fulfilling your dreams is you.

  8. #8
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Zablive's Avatar
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    Forget about the mis-guided missionary.

    Let's expand the discussion on "Face" -Dao and others.

  9. #9
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Chob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daohoshi Dao View Post
    Today with my Aussie family I think for a subject to talk about. Because I not see before.

    Saving face. One friend of family (expert on Thailand 555). My sister(in-law) husbands mother. She missionary go to Thailand 3 times a year and give me a bible in Thai for my present.

    Said that face concept and "True" Buddhism is not possible. I never see her before so I did not say anything when she ask me this statement.

    This start the family discussion that went load so I go fishing with the children.

    Important to talk about here for other people.
    55555555555 !!!

    Oh Dao , the crap you must put up with from some of us Falang! 555

    I apologize for this lady , and I know you know we are not all like this lady.
    I have NEVER had a Buddhist , even once (!) in five years of living here , try to tell me that I should be a buddhist...

    I hope you caught a fish anyway!

  10. #10
    Guest Platinum daohoshi Dao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zablive View Post
    Forget about the mis-guided missionary.

    Let's expand the discussion on "Face" -Dao and others.
    You know already this term “losing face” or “saving face” when talking about Thai culture. It is very big deal. To most Westerners the concept is strange and maybe ridiculous.

    Trust me it is important and very complex for most western people to understand.

    Saving face in Thai culture is same same as a Westerner reputation. The idea behind saving face is nobody wants to lose face.

    Example, most people do not want to be embarrassed or look like stupid. In Thailand just take it very serious. Thai people will tell you “yes” when they mean “no” or “don’t know.” We understand this but makes western people confused.

    You may be thinking “Oh.. I want only honesty.” Yes but do you really? There are some times you want to be lied to when you not look or feel your best. We all do this fibbing or not 100 % true and no harms is done. You are all handsome man yes. You want to hear welcome you fat ugly man.

    Now you thinking this is life and death when Thais don’t tell you the truth for them to “look good” or save face but they do this because Thais don’t know what is important to you or not and not want you to lose face.

    Western culture of “keeping up with the Jones” or trying to make sure they have the greatest big technology and stuff is OK. Thai culture loves that too and even more and more now. But! Don’t be bring shame on the family while you are doing it.

    Look at the language.. Losing face in Thai is sia naa or broken face. This is very powerful language.

    Think to saving face as Thai currency. Because it is also important for you to understand that Thai culture is a NOW culture.

    Thinking of today because tomorrow is not here yet. If you lose face, if you lose your temper, your face currency goes down in price. Your Thai face currency value will do you good in future for things you want and to have a smooth life and influence others

    Example of this. You know the term “Face value”. Girl gets a new IPhone 5 this will up her Thai face currency. Even though she cannot use it because is all in English and not Thai. So she will still let everybody see it for face value and use her old Nokia with Thai lauangue.

    Now you think why I just not say to her. “You are stupid girl pay for that IPhone 5 when you cannot even use it” Because then I will lose my Face currency even though I think she is stupid for buying a phone she cannot use.

    But people will gossip with friends if this Iphone 5 girl does this too much and she will lose face.

    Good concept or bad. Most of the time it is good and harmless for people that understand it 100% If you not understand it 100 % you get the miss understanding.

    Only thing I say to you is sometimes it takes longer to fix some problems because no one can lose face. I find this frustrating now. But for most Thai people this is not so important.

  11. #11
    Guest Platinum daohoshi Dao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    What would you like to have said Dao?

    Did she explain her thinking?
    She said that keeping up with jones is not Buddhism because you need to live without possession.

    Now I would like to tell her not every buddhist people are monk. How can every one in Thailand not have possession and live. No kabuto no rice. No rice you die.

  12. #12
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Chob's Avatar
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    This is a well written piece Dao , and explains a lot.

    I dont know if Ive simply been away from home too long , but I increasingly see Thai 'face' and Western 'reputation' as the same thing.
    Your last paragraph points out the only true ( and frustrating ) difference , the way I see it nowadays.

    It IS harder to 'correct' things or people here, because in Thailand people internalize suggested improvements as criticism rather than detaching a 'mistake' from their 'self' and getting on with it.
    Worse still is seeing Thais fully aware of a problem , but saying nothing because it will make them lose face to make any comment.
    And when 'class' is thrown into the mix , the result is stuff like roads that dont work , inadequate water supplies and environmental rape etc commited by those who no one dares to criticize....

  13. #13
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Chob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daohoshi Dao View Post
    She said that keeping up with jones is not Buddhism because you need to live without possession.

    Now I would like to tell her not every buddhist people are monk. How can every one in Thailand not have possession and live. No kabuto no rice. No rice you die.
    You could have said that you heard Jesus lived without material possessions just like Buddha did....

  14. #14
    Foundation Member Uber Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Gazmac's Avatar
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    You could have said that you heard Jesus lived without material possessions just like Buddha did....
    Oh what PERFECT come back that would have been Chob !!!!!! Would have loved to see the look on her face if that had been said to her !

  15. #15
    Guest Platinum daohoshi Dao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chob View Post
    This is a well written piece Dao , and explains a lot.

    I dont know if Ive simply been away from home too long , but I increasingly see Thai 'face' and Western 'reputation' as the same thing.
    Your last paragraph points out the only true ( and frustrating ) difference , the way I see it nowadays.

    It IS harder to 'correct' things or people here, because in Thailand people internalize suggested improvements as criticism rather than detaching a 'mistake' from their 'self' and getting on with it.
    Worse still is seeing Thais fully aware of a problem , but saying nothing because it will make them lose face to make any comment.
    And when 'class' is thrown into the mix , the result is stuff like roads that dont work , inadequate water supplies and environmental rape etc commited by those who no one dares to criticize.
    ...
    10 years ago I just would not see this. Not until my eyes have seen different. This is a part of this issue. I would say this will Change in 2 or 3 generations with the information of outside is available. Maybe young people Like your Alice will have the chance to change this.

  16. #16
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Chob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daohoshi Dao View Post
    .... Maybe young people Like your Alice will have the chance to change this.
    Not a hope Dao ......

    Shes much too busy partying 'Gangnam Style' nowadays...sigh...
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  17. #17
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Zablive's Avatar
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    Thanks for the morning laugh Chobby.

  18. #18
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Zablive's Avatar
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    dog or children.jpg


    Chobby - would you rather have a dog?

  19. #19
    Organic AI Quarky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daohoshi Dao View Post
    She said that keeping up with jones is not Buddhism because you need to live without possession.
    But isn't that true of most religions? So she is correct. But it is not what separates Buddhism from Christianity. The main difference is that one of those religions is built on fear... OK, you could say all religions are built on fear, but Christianity puts the "f" into fear...
    My only experience was in a pie making factory managing the gravy team


  20. #20
    Organic AI Quarky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydney View Post
    ...akin to telling a catholic the pope is gay !!
    Or worse! But then they don't need to be told, it's on the news each week....

    And you are right. Any religion is a way of life...

    As for the topic of Face. I also don't believe in the concept of pride... hence why there is nothing in my life I am proud of as I don't believe in freewill either....

    RESOLVED: Free Will Does Not Exist
    My only experience was in a pie making factory managing the gravy team


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