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Thread: Giving money

  1. #1
    Cadet nutasor's Avatar
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    Giving money

    Topic has be done and done. But But

    When is giving and happy giving to help and then ask too mutt??

    Where is that line of helping out and abuse?

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน justcruzing1's Avatar
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    ^^^^ How long is a piece of string??
    As you said done a lot already, but to answer your question, it very much depends on the relationship/financial capacity and the desire to invest.

    Knowledge of the culture is the biggest. This will see you knowing when to say no is the right thing, and when to give a little, is the right thing.
    "Of course you love me darling, I handsome man 55555"

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน RakThai's Avatar
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    “We are visitors on this planet.
    We are here for ninety or one hundred years at the very most.
    During that period, we must try to do something good, something useful, with our lives.
    If you contribute to other people’s happiness, you will find the true goal, the true meaning of life.”


    By H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

  4. #4
    Platinum NeedHoliday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post

    If you contribute to other people’s happiness, you will find the true goal, the true meaning of life.”


    By H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama
    I think there's an extremely thin line between contributing to other people's happiness, and being taken advantage of. Thai girls excel at the latter, and one could probably argue that you're not even contributing to their happiness, rather their family's.

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Stillearly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeedHoliday View Post
    I think there's an extremely thin line between contributing to other people's happiness, and being taken advantage of. Thai girls excel at the latter, and one could probably argue that you're not even contributing to their happiness, rather their family's.
    That's a bit of a generalisation ..

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน RakThai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeedHoliday View Post
    I think there's an extremely thin line between contributing to other people's happiness, and being taken advantage of. Thai girls excel at the latter, and one could probably argue that you're not even contributing to their happiness, rather their family's.
    Yes, I agree, it is a very thin line..
    And one I question in my own life a lot.. Not only in regard to Thai ladies, but also in my work and with my children..

    For example..
    As a father, I do everything for my kids.. And they have never lacked anything material..
    Never experienced hunger or hardship.. Not that they are really spoiled.. Well, no more than most other kids here..555
    But even at a young age, I see them taking thinks for granted too easy..
    Food, candy, TV, video games and telephones... It's normal, without a thought..

    So by providing for them, I also rob them of certain experiences, experiences that lead to certain human attitudes I highly value..
    For the record, I could not deliberately make them go hungry, or force them to share clothes.. And I am sure my parents have given me what they could ..

    So more is not always better..
    But I think the question "does this benefit the happiness?" is a good starting point to determine where this thin line is..

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    Cadet StupScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeedHoliday View Post
    I think there's an extremely thin line between contributing to other people's happiness, and being taken advantage of. Thai girls excel at the latter, and one could probably argue that you're not even contributing to their happiness, rather their family's.
    I agree with SE, just a bit of a generalisation, but an opinion I was guilty of having myself, before and and after my first trip.

    I'm glad to say I've learned a lot from subsequent trips and it's a generalisation I no longer hold. There are people who excel at taking advantage of others in all walks of life the world over.

    One could also argue that their families happiness is the source of their happiness, again, not exclusive to Thailand. Family, and taking care of one another, is important in the west too!

  8. #8
    Foundation Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Sydney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nutasor View Post
    Where is that line of helping out and abuse?
    Has being done and done Nut as you say, but the way you ask it with the above line makes it interesting again

    Personally from our side of the fence i think it comes down to what you can afford......it you can only afford 20 dollars a week then that's it, no more and don't give anymore.....and tell all concerned NO, this is all i can afford.

    I mean if i was super rich, i mean fithy rich i would gladly set them up with a house and anything else they need....why not ? i could afford it.


    From their side of the fence if they are pushing beyond what you can afford, and you have already explained previously what you can only afford, then they have clearly crossed the line, and you need to let everyone know that they have crossed the line, and in danger of losing everything !!..... from there its back to my 1st line, paying only what you can afford..

    Quite simple really when you break it down...it doesn't need to be hard or complicated

    Edit: Thought i better add in a commonsense scenario that could occur...

    ok you are paying your $20.00 a week and everyone seems happy, then after 2-3 months into the relationship the call comes and the motorbike accident....need more money to fix motorbike ?......now you think to yourself i can AFFORD to send the money BUT we have only being together 2-3 months so is this a test ?, if i say yes now what happens next ?......commonsense prevails of coarse and you say no can't AFFORD it now.

    If however you have being together for more than a year and nothing extra has being asked of you and the call comes to help fix motorbike.....and you can AFFORD to help fix it, you probably would consider a yes to this as they haven't asked for anything else.

    But 2 months after this and another call for help ?....hmmmmm a pattern is beginning here.....i can still AFFORD to help, but if i help again then what ? so NO sorry i can;t afford this time as it was only 2 months ago i helped last time..

    Commonsense really....they aren't that hard to read !!
    Last edited by Sydney; 4th May 2013 at 11:27.
    The only thing that will stop you from fulfilling your dreams is you.

  9. #9
    Foundation Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Minder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post
    Yes, I agree, it is a very thin line..
    And one I question in my own life a lot.. Not only in regard to Thai ladies, but also in my work and with my children..

    For example..
    As a father, I do everything for my kids.. And they have never lacked anything material..
    Never experienced hunger or hardship.. Not that they are really spoiled.. Well, no more than most other kids here..555
    But even at a young age, I see them taking thinks for granted too easy..
    Food, candy, TV, video games and telephones... It's normal, without a thought..

    So by providing for them, I also rob them of certain experiences, experiences that lead to certain human attitudes I highly value..
    For the record, I could not deliberately make them go hungry, or force them to share clothes.. And I am sure my parents have given me what they could ..

    So more is not always better..
    But I think the question "does this benefit the happiness?" is a good starting point to determine where this thin line is..
    I thought this post raised questions worthy of it own thread ... so I started one:


    The current generation ... do we help our kids too much?
    Life is the unexpected ...

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Uber Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Nomad's Avatar
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    The concept I have worked on with my TG and her sister is the concept of good money and bad money. For example, whilst for merit and their sense of responsibility, they both provide money to mum every month, I have encouraged them to try to hold back a little every month and save for her mum's house (good money), and she says no to the once-off requests (bad money) about half the time. Overall, it has worked better than I thought it would, money requests are essentially no different to prior to my involvement, she says no about half the time, most/all "big money" once-offs have been paid back which we have then put in the "house" account which mum is not aware of.
    "Don't wait around for your life to happen to you. Find something that makes you happy and do it. Everything else is just background noise." George Mason

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Chob's Avatar
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    Ive said it before , but Ive had very little in the way of requests for a handout.
    I expect this must be out of sympathy for having 4 kids ....or maybe I just look like a 'kee niow' brute and everyones scared to ask...555
    I really dont know.

    I dont get 'family requests' so they arent taking any advantage , and my tg always seems to bank a lot of her monthly allowance ( from me) for saving for her Grand Daughters schooling , so if she gets requests , she must say 'no' or not give much...

    But Ive observed a bit of whats been mentioned , and yes , the tg making continual requests is very often 'giving' what she receives on to family members , so seems quite unmaterialistic herself.
    However Nomad is spot on , they are still getting pleasure , and to some point face , from 'receiving' and passing whatever , on.

    I also consider the tg who 'flogs a dead horse' for more and more and bigger and better , as quite obviously indicating her lack of true interest in her partner.
    This is because for most cultures of the world , a partner that is sharing the love , is also sharing the burden , so therefore NOT milking the partner , or creating a scenario wherein one person is 'slaving' away for anymore than his own wife and offspring....
    Fine if the husband is requested to help keep Mumma subsistent .... wrong if its also a new house and a new a pick-up for Pappa , and a bit of land for bro. etc.

    ( Unless of course the couple have been together for years , and are quite well off ...)

    Having said all that , some Farang partners like to work , and enjoy spreading the fruits of doing what they like far and wide.
    If so , good , I have been about long enough now to say 'up to them' and really mean it.
    None of my business what they do with their money!

  12. #12
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน jontymate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    The concept I have worked on with my TG and her sister is the concept of good money and bad money. For example, whilst for merit and their sense of responsibility, they both provide money to mum every month, I have encouraged them to try to hold back a little every month and save for her mum's house (good money), and she says no to the once-off requests (bad money) about half the time. Overall, it has worked better than I thought it would, money requests are essentially no different to prior to my involvement, she says no about half the time, most/all "big money" once-offs have been paid back which we have then put in the "house" account which mum is not aware of.
    Great system nomad. My guess is that she gets pleasure out of "giving" that money into mums account. When she sees actual growth and compounding interest or share value (another hard one to explain at first) the smile becomes so so big like Eureka.

    We now have 4 small Grandchildren accounts that Dao puts money into. My kids think she is strange,(Those who do not know me well, I have no grandchildren) but she loves showing them every six month or so.

    ''My grandchildren vely lich already"
    "Man cannot discover New Oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore" 
      
       
       
         
       
      
     

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    I've told this story so many times that I've forgotten who I've told it to...

    I've given to a Thai family for over 10 years and it has been both a rewarding and frustrating experience. After visiting Thailand for about 5 years and exploring some of its rural areas I decided to unofficially "adopt" a family that needed some assistance. I looked around for a few years and then met a woman with 3 children. She originally told me she had two, but I discovered a third when I went to visit them in Kanchanaburi. I kind of fell in love with the two youngest that were 2 and 4 at the time. There was no husband in the picture, but there were adult brothers and sisters who all supported their parents. I assessed what I could afford each month and already knew what the average monthly wage was for most Thais in rural areas. I decided I could afford about 6000 baht a month and that would allow the family to have enough to start a business if everyone was working and contributing. I only visit them about once a year in December, but I send money to the woman's bank account... even when I'm in Canada. I feel that no "gift" should have strings attached, but there ARE limits to my generosity. I DON'T LIKE WASTE! I don't want my money given to a temple for merit when it could be better used feeding the family and paying for school clothes. I don't believe in buying motorcycles on time when there are high interest rates involved. I don't want to pay for people to sit on their ass and get fat when there is work that could be done. I don't want the money I give being wasted and then expected to pay even more.

    I could bore you with all the times I've been pissed off with the stupid things the woman does, but she is a good mother who loves her family. I would have cut her off a long time ago if it weren't for the two youngest children that I love like they were my own. They both call me Daddy, or father, and we always have great times together when I visit. It is their lazy mother who irritates me. I know I've helped the whole family and probably the woman's sister and husband even more. I got a ice and water business started for them by buying ice boxes and a motorbike with side car to distribute the water. They earned enough by working hard and eventually moved out of the family home to one of their own.

    So, in answer to the original topic I think it has been a rewarding experience for me because I've stayed within what I could afford to spend. The only frustration has been that I know the woman could have prospered even more had she paid the slightest attention to my suggestions and contributed more herself.

    About 8 years ago...



    The kids are growing up and now sending me e-mails and messages on the cel phones I bought them.



    My little biker babe when I road my 250 Kawasaki D-Tracker down from Chiang Mai to Kanchanaburi last December.


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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน meese's Avatar
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    like every thing in life..its up to you...do what is right for you

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    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน jontymate's Avatar
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    My friend (52) has a TW and has worked in IT for the local Government for the last 15 years. He was retrenched 9 months ago and got a good package. After looking for work now for 6 months without any luck (I image it would be difficult to find IT work at that age). He now has to really economise.

    Yes he made some mistakes of spending up when he got his redundancy. His TW has never worked because he wanted her at home (Up to them). He has always willingly sent the monthly “Take Care” to the in-laws. With the usual bonuses / emergencies. Never an issue and said how happy he was to help out.

    Now though with his loss of income he’s really starting to get resentful about this money going to the in-laws even though he knew this is what he signed up for. It’s staring to drive a wedge in their marriage.

    He lost the plot at Songkran (Australian Version) when I invited him back to my place for a few drinks. He is skint and really cannot afford to even buy a few beers. No problem my shout. Then the phone call from his wife’s family all happy and on the drink. He made a scene that he could not afford to buy a drink but all of “Them” are very merry on his coin.

    Thus starts the downward spiral. Up until this financial pressure, I would have said they were a model mixed couple.

    To balance this I have met his Thai family and they are not a bad lot. Also his wife has told her family that they have money issues and will need to send less. But being a pig headed farang he said no send the same amount.

    This is of course not a mixed couple specific problem with financial pressures. His wife tonight though resides in our guest room until his heart cools from yet another rejection on the work front.
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    Cadet Gold Tyrion's Avatar
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    Nice story Ian.

    I've had a lot to do with rural areas of Thailand as well. Spent a lot of time in a place called called Singburi on the Chao Phraya river about 2 hours north of Bangkok. I found with the rural poor wonderful people and its difficult because you want to help them all. The frustrating thing is that these people come across as lazy and victims of there own circumstances. But there is a lot of hopelessness that creates the laziness. There are very few jobs for these people and the few jobs that they can get are hard, laborious and long hours.

    My opinion with regards to sending money is no way for a BG, unless you want to start a real relationship. Do what Ian has done, far more rewarding and much less headache and heartache.

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    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน jontymate's Avatar
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    ^^ I have seen a lot written about laziness and agree with you in part. Some people seem to think that there is no incentive to achieve if it then has to be shared with those less proactive. My experience does not reflect this. Just need to break the poverty cycle and a little gentle incentivise education.
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  18. #18
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน PeteGill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontymate View Post
    My friend (52) has a TW and has worked in IT for the local Government for the last 15 years. He was retrenched 9 months ago and got a good package. After looking for work now for 6 months without any luck (I image it would be difficult to find IT work at that age). He now has to really economise.

    Yes he made some mistakes of spending up when he got his redundancy. His TW has never worked because he wanted her at home (Up to them). He has always willingly sent the monthly “Take Care” to the in-laws. With the usual bonuses / emergencies. Never an issue and said how happy he was to help out.

    Now though with his loss of income he’s really starting to get resentful about this money going to the in-laws even though he knew this is what he signed up for. It’s staring to drive a wedge in their marriage.

    He lost the plot at Songkran (Australian Version) when I invited him back to my place for a few drinks. He is skint and really cannot afford to even buy a few beers. No problem my shout. Then the phone call from his wife’s family all happy and on the drink. He made a scene that he could not afford to buy a drink but all of “Them” are very merry on his coin.

    Thus starts the downward spiral. Up until this financial pressure, I would have said they were a model mixed couple.

    To balance this I have met his Thai family and they are not a bad lot. Also his wife has told her family that they have money issues and will need to send less. But being a pig headed farang he said no send the same amount.

    This is of course not a mixed couple specific problem with financial pressures. His wife tonight though resides in our guest room until his heart cools from yet another rejection on the work front.
    Issues like this will test any relationship. And even more so one that is cross cultural.

  19. #19
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Chob's Avatar
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    "Thus starts the downward spiral. Up until this financial pressure, I would have said they were a model mixed couple.

    To balance this I have met his Thai family and they are not a bad lot. Also his wife has told her family that they have money issues and will need to send less. But being a pig headed farang he said no send the same amount.

    This is of course not a mixed couple specific problem with financial pressures. His wife tonight though resides in our guest room until his heart cools from yet another rejection on the work front."

    "Now though with his loss of income he’s really starting to get resentful about this money going to the in-laws even though he knew this is what he signed up for."

    Then the current crisis should allow for his payments to stop indefinately or till he has an income again.
    If it were me this is what would be happening.
    If he had lost a leg would he still be expected to send payments?
    His obligations are obviously overwhelming him , and nobody will gain should his marriage end.
    It would be nice if the wife were to do the explaining to her family on the side and put a hold on stipends ...I sort of expect thats not the case however.

  20. #20
    Platinum NeedHoliday's Avatar
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    Money is a bit of a dilema for me at the moment. My parents have no idea I send my TGF money, they'd flip out if they did, but it's hard to explain to them why I do. Hell even I can't get my head around it sometimes, but we've been going out for about 6-7 months now so happy to share what I can with her.

    For me, what I send is enough for me to part with, whilst still not hampering my lifestyle too much. It's not a huge amount, but to her it helps a lot - especially with her son as he lives with her aunt back in the village so she sends enough back to cover that and schooling etc. Her last boyfriend was a pilot, and I find myself having to somehow live up to that level of income. She knows I can't provide as much as he did, but whilst they were together he put her son in an international school. So now she wants to keep him there for a good education, but is facing the hefty costs that come with that type of school, and whilst she doesn't make direct remarks for more money, she does complain about how much it's costing her.

    The kid's education I kinda feel bad about, but then she tells me she has almost 10k/month to pay off on her car that she barely uses (parked back in the village), and it just boggles my mind that she'd keep the car given it's usage. Not sure if that is saving face with the family as a status symbol or something.

    It's hard keeping up with her expenses at times to figure out where all the money goes!

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