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Thread: Blind faith

  1. #321
    Seven_
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    A quick summary for you (and others)

    Thai Buddhist are Theravada Buddhist
    They only believe in the first Buddha
    They are selfish as they are only concerned with their own enlightenment compare to other Buddhist who care about others.
    They don't believe in most of the ritual stuff
    They only follow the first Pali canon (original Buddhist texts)
    They believe you can only achieve enlightenment by becoming a monk
    Only eat one meal a day, can eat meat if offered but shouldn't by choice.
    Simple temples with main focus on the first Buddha
    Respect to elders and teachers (which the monks see themselves as)
    No teaching on Buddhist Nature.

    Hope this helps
    Last edited by Seven_; 28th August 2016 at 10:48.

  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distantpeak View Post
    I was trying to work out how you and Catholicism would be anything like her and Buddhism? As she sounds like she still practices to a degree?
    I can understand what Paul is saying. It is how religious interpretations fit into their own lives. Not all doctrines are followed the same way. It is like believing in the tooth fairy or Santa Clause. If it works for you then that is all that matters. I just can't get my head wrapped around any religion that does not allow women to be equal to men in basic rights of survival or leadership. You don't see any female Catholic priests, Muslim or Hindi leaders, or Buddhist monks. The odd thing is that in Thai society it is often the mother who runs the whole family.

    .................................................. ........................

    I like Seven's last reply #321. It is well thought out.

  3. #323
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน RakThai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven_ View Post
    As I have said my wife and her family are fairly strict Buddhist, my FIL was a monk for over 10 years before he met his wife and left the monk hood due to falling in love with her. Interestingly he never goes to temples anymore, but monks always ask about him and when they come his home they want to see and speak to him. From what I gather he is very highly regarded by them.

    But to this day I haven't been able to work out why he doesn't go to a temple, past him saying he doesn't need too, I have accepted maybe he is right.
    From what I know about Mahayana Buddhism (and I assume it's similar in Theravada) there is numerous levels of monk hood.
    A higher order monk teaches the lower order monks...

    So after 10 years of being a monk, your FIL must have reached a high order of monk-hood..
    So the dilemma is, since he is no longer a monk, he can not teach other monks.
    Same time, monks of lower order than he had can not teach him... something like that?

  4. #324
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Changone's Avatar
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    I wonder if there is an Islamic forum somewhere out there where people try to tell each other how the whole thing works...555
    And where the hell was Biggles.....?....when you needed him last Saturday....?

  5. #325
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน PeteGill's Avatar
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    ^^^^ I am sure that there are more than just a few. I should imagine all religions are open to a fair amount of interpretation. Just like when two opposing boxers both climb in to the ring claiming that God is in their corner.
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  6. #326
    Seven_
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    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post
    From what I know about Mahayana Buddhism (and I assume it's similar in Theravada) there is numerous levels of monk hood.
    A higher order monk teaches the lower order monks...

    So after 10 years of being a monk, your FIL must have reached a high order of monk-hood..
    So the dilemma is, since he is no longer a monk, he can not teach other monks.
    Same time, monks of lower order than he had can not teach him... something like that?
    That's my thinking as well, interestingly on side note no one can wash his clothes as he was a monk before so I am told.

    On the very very rare occasions he goes to the temple, usually because I asked him to go at the request of my wife, (due to him respecting me, as she/her family says he wont say no to me 555) its an unusual sight, as the monks seem to place him above themselves.

    He knows a great deal about Buddhism from a Thai perspective as well as Animism and has taught me a lot and made me read a lot to be able talk to him about it. Although I never see him practice Animism in any form (compared to the MIL), but is a wealth of knowledge if you ask him about it.

    But then again they seem to treat the local drunk/Animism priest who is self proclaimed my best friend the same way, so who knows.

    But its interesting to see an Animism priest and a monk interact, as they seem to believe and act as if they are both on the same level (for want of a better word).

  7. #327
    The artist formally known as Wabbits Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน wabbits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Changone View Post
    I wonder if there is an Islamic forum somewhere out there where people try to tell each other how the whole thing works...555
    There is a Thai forum somewhere where bloke sit around and tell each other how the whole thing works
    Last edited by wabbits; 3rd June 2016 at 19:36.
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  8. #328
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distantpeak View Post
    I was trying to work out how you and Catholicism would be anything like her and Buddhism? As she sounds like she still practices to a degree?
    It doesn't matter if I practice or not.....its actually pretty simple to understand from what I said that Buddhism is a religion the same as being Catholic

  9. #329
    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Changone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wabbits View Post
    There is a Thai forum somewhere where bloke sit around and tell each other how the whole thing works
    Lovin this, we are all armchair experts here...you are the Man Wabbs......555
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    And where the hell was Biggles.....?....when you needed him last Saturday....?

  10. #330
    Organic AI Quarky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcTwoSix View Post
    It doesn't matter if I practice or not.....its actually pretty simple to understand from what I said that Buddhism is a religion the same as being Catholic
    ...and yet one doesn't have a God...

    So nothing like each other... could they be more different? ..55

    I think I may have missed something along the way, as I can't see a connection...
    Last edited by Quarky; 4th June 2016 at 00:33.
    My only experience was in a pie making factory managing the gravy team


  11. #331
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distantpeak View Post
    ...and yet one doesn't have a God...

    So nothing like each other... could they be more different? ..55

    I think I may have missed something along the way, as I can't see a connection...
    I'd call you stupid for not understanding a pretty simple post, but then that would be condescending and I obviously can't be after accusing Seven of

    The debate is if it is a religion or "way of life"
    My post was pretty clear that I asked a practicing Buddhist if she felt that Buddhism was a religion and she confirmed she felt it was

    Then she gave examples of her temple being the same as a church and looking at her Buddha the same as a Catholic would look at Jesus

    How you didn't understand any of that from my post is beyond me

  12. #332
    Organic AI Quarky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcTwoSix View Post
    I'd call you stupid for not understanding a pretty simple post, but then that would be condescending and I obviously can't be after accusing Seven of

    The debate is if it is a religion or "way of life"
    My post was pretty clear that I asked a practicing Buddhist if she felt that Buddhism was a religion and she confirmed she felt it was

    Then she gave examples of her temple being the same as a church and looking at her Buddha the same as a Catholic would look at Jesus

    How you didn't understand any of that from my post is beyond me
    Fair enough.... I hope you put her straight then... 55
    My only experience was in a pie making factory managing the gravy team


  13. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distantpeak View Post
    Fair enough.... I hope you put her straight then... 55
    Since I haven't stepped into a church since she has known me........I am not exactly at liberty to question her faith

    Although I can shake my head some times 555

  14. #334
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    I still wonder why does it matter? Believe anything you want, but just don't try forcing it on others. Nothing wrong with studying the various beliefs... call them religion if you want. Within the so called Christian religion there are dozens (hundreds?) of slightly different interpretations. None of them are any more "right" than others. It is how you actually live and treat others that counts. I would never think of asking anyone to do something they don't want to do. If you want to learn about what makes some people tick then be my guest... study all you want but it won't change what people actually do in real life. All the bigoted people I know are devout church goers who think they are better than others because of their beliefs... but not their deeds. Many are racist. It frankly shocked me when I found out, because other than that they seemed like nice people.

    My second wife was raised as a strict Catholic, but early on she saw the hypocrisy in that church. She was scolded by the priest for giving her money to the poor people outside the church. Maria was always searching for the missing pieces. During the 7 years we were together she attended the Mormon church, the Jehovah Witness church, the Anglican church, the Presbyterian church and another one that I can't remember. She stayed just long enough to learn something about them before moving on. She never found one that she liked. Maria was/is a very "giving" person, and excellent with mentally handicapped and elderly people. That is what she wound up doing after we split up... looking after the elderly for families that could afford to pay to have their old parents looked after.
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  15. #335
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Forbes View Post
    I still wonder why does it matter? Believe anything you want, but just don't try forcing it on others. Nothing wrong with studying the various beliefs... call them religion if you want. Within the so called Christian religion there are dozens (hundreds?) of slightly different interpretations. None of them are any more "right" than others. It is how you actually live and treat others that counts. I would never think of asking anyone to do something they don't want to do. If you want to learn about what makes some people tick then be my guest... study all you want but it won't change what people actually do in real life. All the bigoted people I know are devout church goers who think they are better than others because of their beliefs... but not their deeds. Many are racist. It frankly shocked me when I found out, because other than that they seemed like nice people.

    My second wife was raised as a strict Catholic, but early on she saw the hypocrisy in that church. She was scolded by the priest for giving her money to the poor people outside the church. Maria was always searching for the missing pieces. During the 7 years we were together she attended the Mormon church, the Jehovah Witness church, the Anglican church, the Presbyterian church and another one that I can't remember. She stayed just long enough to learn something about them before moving on. She never found one that she liked. Maria was/is a very "giving" person, and excellent with mentally handicapped and elderly people. That is what she wound up doing after we split up... looking after the elderly for families that could afford to pay to have their old parents looked after.
    I don't see anywhere where anyone is saying which one is correct or not........it's just a discussion on the differences
    I don't get these comments that this thread is somehow people saying anything else but what they have learned or experienced.

    Seven obviously has a very textbook knowledge of it, and he obviously has spent time to research it.
    I'm relaying what I have observed and what my wife feels
    Rak is given his experience on a few different aspects

    What type of discussions do all you people have on subjects?
    Someone states something and everyone goes "yup" and then you stare at each other?

    This seems like any sort of conversation you'd have with people sitting around talking and the subject came up

  16. #336
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    Early on in this thread there were a few people calling each other names. That is the point I am making.

    I have a rough idea what Buddhism is from the few rural families in Thailand that I have been associated with. Other than that I would never be interested in the technical differences like Seven seems to know, because it doesn't interest me... just as the Latin names of insects that trout feed on would not be of interest to 90% of anglers who fish for trout. If something interests you then fill your boots and study it all you want. If others are interested then let them join in.

    As I have said many, many times, the only thing that concerns me is how people treat others in real life. I don't care if they go to church or not. It doesn't matter. But, if it matters to them and makes them happy then I'm all for it.

    Pui is the most generous and giving person I have ever known. Her mother is exactly the same. They think of everyone else but themselves first. That is why I love them both and will do what I can for them. If going to the temple makes Pui's mother happy then I am happy for her, and urge Pui to join her mother... and not because of the religion, but because of the social aspect of it. Buddhism is the only "religion" (if it can be called a religion) where I've seen this basic goodness really be displayed on a wide spread basis. Many church groups talk a lot of good deeds, but action is not so forthcoming.
    Last edited by Ian Forbes; 4th June 2016 at 04:44.

  17. #337
    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน RakThai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven_ View Post
    A quick summary for you (and others)

    Thai Buddhist are Theravada Buddhist
    They only believe in the first Buddha
    They are selfish as they are only concerned with their own enlightenment compare to other Buddhist who care about others.
    They don't believe in most of the ritual stuff
    They only follow the first Pali canon (original Buddhist texts)
    They believe you can only achieve enlightenment by becoming a monk
    Only eat one meal a day, can eat meat if offered but shouldn't by choice.
    Simple temples with main focus on the first Buddha
    Respect to elders and teachers (which the monks see themselves as)
    No teaching on Buddhist Nature.

    Hope this helps
    Most religions (or all?) have a sort of reward, heaven, nirvana or a certain number of virgins in the afterlife..
    Or just the fulfilling life-goal of helping others, find a meaning of life..

    Now you say Theravada Buddhists don't believe in the Buddha nature, nor in reincarnations or a undying soul..
    Furthermore only concerned with their own enlightenment...
    So what does this enlightenment mean to Theravada monks? (women and non-monks are excluded regardless of their actions).. What is the reason they would even consider to make all these sacrifices?

  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post
    ).. What is the reason they would even consider to make all these sacrifices?
    Masochists.? 555

  19. #339
    Seven_
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    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post
    Most religions (or all?) have a sort of reward, heaven, nirvana or a certain number of virgins in the afterlife..
    Or just the fulfilling life-goal of helping others, find a meaning of life..

    Now you say Theravada Buddhists don't believe in the Buddha nature, nor in reincarnations or a undying soul..
    Furthermore only concerned with their own enlightenment...
    So what does this enlightenment mean to Theravada monks? (women and non-monks are excluded regardless of their actions)
    Theravada Buddhists do not believe in reincarnation, as the concept itself is associated with the soul progressing from lifetime to lifetime.

    According to Theravada teachings, what moves on to the next life is not a soul, or a memory, but an ever-changing consciousness.

    This consciousness, while influenced by its previous lives, does not stay the same from incarnation to incarnation.

    This concept is explained with the imagery of passing a flame from candle to candle. Each new flame is not identical to the last, but is not completely detached from it either.

    While our actions affect our rebirth, the essence of who we are dies along with our body and mind in the physical world.

    Buddhists don't believe in reincarnation, they believe in the transmigration of thought or Anatta.

    Theravada Buddhism sees life and existence as suffering.

    We are continually born and then die in an endless cycle of suffering. Reaching Nirvana is stopping the continuation of life.

    By not being fazed by suffrage or temptation, and accepting reality for what it is, consciousness can detach itself from existence thus reaching Nirvana.

    Consciousness then disappears into the nature of reality having been enlightened to the truth of all creation.

    Parinirvana is the action of one dying for the last time before reaching Nirvana. As for what happens next, no one is quite sure.

    Women and non-monks arenít excluded as such from this technically, itís just that itís considered all most impossible to obtain without formally study/training. But Gautama Buddha achieved it on his own so its possible (just unlikely)

    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post
    What is the reason they would even consider to make all these sacrifices?
    Life is suffering, one of the most important fundamentals of Buddhism.

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven_ View Post
    Life is suffering, one of the most important fundamentals of Buddhism.
    Ah Ha! Now I understand what the good general is doing for his people... making them suffer more so they will fit in with Buddhism beliefs. 5555

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