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Thread: Thai Aspirations

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Cippy's Avatar
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    Thai Aspirations

    In a roundabout sort of way I started mulling over this subject today. It started when I got busy at work and forgot about a chat I was having with my wife. I remembered her and came back and apologized and said I got busy. She responded by saying she wished she had something to keep her busy, pass the time faster until I get home. I said of course you have plenty of things to keep you busy, “how about the garden you said you wanted to start. How about just doing the windows?”

    “Oh, no,” she responds, “I mean real work.”

    What she meant was work that will make her money, and she is just not motivated to do things that are available to her and chooses not to. And what really motivates her is sending money home so her parents, so they don't have to struggle, yes. But they don't really, they don't go hungry, when the don't have money they gather food off the land, bamboo and banana shoots and the like. But mostly she wants them to have enough every month so they don’t have to ever work again. Oei.

    Her father is scraping by doing Charcoal about 10,000 a month. But he can leave and do what he always did and make more money. He just doesn’t want to leave the village anymore. He wants to make a living at home. Fair enough, IF he can make it happen.

    Her mother is working in a noodle shop in Rayong, but doesn’t like it because her friend she is staying with fights with her husband everyday. The wife wanted to send money after she was there for three days, have her give up. I told her that there is always something unpleasant about work and life. The whole idea was to get her out of the village and maybe away from the triggers that keep her drinking. I said have her work a month, then get her own place along with other solutions she can do herself with out us sending money, again.

    These people are only a few years older than me. I am turning 44 next week. The MiL is 47 and the FiL just turned 50. Yet, it is ok for me to work for another 20 years. Not so for them apparently. I understand about the cultural rules that bring this about, the debt that can never be repaid. That is fine, I wouldn’t mind subsidizing. But I certainly am not going to support someone doing nothing but collect.

    My biggest motivation though is I just don't have the money, we sent about $2500 in the last couple months, car insurance, new tires, life insurance, basic medical. Business for Mom that turned into going to sell noodles. I need to get on my own two feet.

    This brings me to what I have heard a friend say before. Poor Thai, in general, aspire to do nothing, to be taken care of. To have the ability to sit on the front porch and do whatever pleases them, like in my MiL case, would be to drink Loas Kow everyday. I never really used to believe that they had no aspirations, but that seems what my wife wants to provide for her parents. This is what Mom's sister has, her daughter living in Hawaii send $200 a month and all that lady does is drink and eat and mess around with married men. I will not fund that sort of life for anybody.

    The biggest problem I see with this is that most Thai I know are not happy with the simple village life. They want a western home, they want a Hi-Lux and want to do the minimum to get it. This is why I think that the Thai debt that can never be paid does a disservice to poor Thai culture.
    Last edited by Cippy; 6th June 2016 at 03:30.
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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน RakThai's Avatar
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    Fully agree what that!

    Trick for you (or for anybody) is to detach yourself from these financial / emotional responsibilities. They are your wive's, not yours.
    You can only achieve that if your wife has a budget of her own, her money to do with as she pleases.
    Also it will force her to make certain choices, new clothes for your daughter OR whiskey for mom...

    So I do understand your wive's desire to have paid work.. And for sure that is not aspiring to do nothing..!

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    When I 1st met Ao, her mom and dad were both living in the village not working.....both in their early 40's
    And just living off of her.....and Ao was a ticking time bomb with so much stress
    I eventually convinced that is was insane her able parents weren't working at their age and both went back to work.

    But the things I see with Thais is they can be had workers but sort of want a medal for doing so.
    My wife works her ass off at the restaurant but then would come home and act like she is going to die.

    Same with my MIL.....she is always keeping busy doing something but acts like she claimed Mount Everest!! 555

    My MIL takes care of babies in the neighborhood and usually has 2 or 3 at one time(which is hard work) but it is from the poorer people who can only afford 4k or so a month.
    I am certain that a fill-on day care will work with the middle class demographic that make good money but need to work long hours and need child care but I don't think my MIL is willing to do that type of full on work.


    My mother worked until she was 70yrs

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Cippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post
    Fully agree what that!

    Trick for you (or for anybody) is to detach yourself from these financial / emotional responsibilities. They are your wive's, not yours.
    You can only achieve that if your wife has a budget of her own, her money to do with as she pleases.
    Also it will force her to make certain choices, new clothes for your daughter OR whiskey for mom...

    So I do understand your wive's desire to have paid work.. And for sure that is not aspiring to do nothing..!
    The problem I have with that is the money I would give her to make any sort of poor choices she wanted with what I could afford is tied up in the car.

    Against my better judgment I allowed her father to take over our car. He really wanted it and the wife really wanted him to have it. It was a bad choice all around and I explained that in detail more than once even before it happened. The problem was I couldn't find a private buyer before I left the country and I would have gotten thoroughly raped from any commercial business. Even though the car was worth more than I owed, any lot I took it too would not be satisfied without making a very large profit.

    So we came up with a deal that he can pay half payments. But I ended up making 2/3s. Even if we owned the car outright he couldn't afford insurance or maintenance. SO the car is costing me about $4000/year. What's worse is now that her parents have split up the FiL is the sole beneficiary to the car money we send.

    This doesn't stop the wife from going crazy about helping them out even when they don't ask. When it is just complaining to her about their problems because she is the parent now it seems.

    If it were not for this one issue, we would almost never fight. Doesn't matter how much good sense I talk to her. You would think someone would tell their parents if they were the cause of the biggest rift between people.

    Like an addiction, once she gets it in her head that money has to go it is going to be a fight or pay. I choose the argument most time now.

    I know she has aspirations, but er aspirations for her parents, like I said, is to become aimless. To retire at 50. Worse than retire, to prematurely turn them in to geriatrics that can't take care of themselves.
    Never argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. M.T.

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cippy View Post
    The problem I have with that is the money I would give her to make any sort of poor choices she wanted with what I could afford is tied up in the car.

    Against my better judgment I allowed her father to take over our car. He really wanted it and the wife really wanted him to have it. It was a bad choice all around and I explained that in detail more than once even before it happened. The problem was I couldn't find a private buyer before I left the country and I would have gotten thoroughly raped from any commercial business. Even though the car was worth more than I owed, any lot I took it too would not be satisfied without making a very large profit.

    So we came up with a deal that he can pay half payments. But I ended up making 2/3s. Even if we owned the car outright he couldn't afford insurance or maintenance. SO the car is costing me about $4000/year. What's worse is now that her parents have split up the FiL is the sole beneficiary to the car money we send.

    This doesn't stop the wife from going crazy about helping them out even when they don't ask. When it is just complaining to her about their problems because she is the parent now it seems.

    If it were not for this one issue, we would almost never fight. Doesn't matter how much good sense I talk to her. You would think someone would tell their parents if they were the cause of the biggest rift between people.

    Like an addiction, once she gets it in her head that money has to go it is going to be a fight or pay. I choose the argument most time now.

    I know she has aspirations, but er aspirations for her parents, like I said, is to become aimless. To retire at 50. Worse than retire, to prematurely turn them in to geriatrics that can't take care of themselves.
    Honestly give her time
    She will see how things are done in the US and she will come to a happy medium in taking care of them.

    She hasn't been in the US that long to start to realize it but they all do.

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน RakThai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cippy View Post
    The problem I have with that is the money I would give her to make any sort of poor choices she wanted with what I could afford is tied up in the car.

    Against my better judgment I allowed her father to take over our car. He really wanted it and the wife really wanted him to have it. It was a bad choice all around and I explained that in detail more than once even before it happened. The problem was I couldn't find a private buyer before I left the country and I would have gotten thoroughly raped from any commercial business. Even though the car was worth more than I owed, any lot I took it too would not be satisfied without making a very large profit.

    So we came up with a deal that he can pay half payments. But I ended up making 2/3s. Even if we owned the car outright he couldn't afford insurance or maintenance. SO the car is costing me about $4000/year. What's worse is now that her parents have split up the FiL is the sole beneficiary to the car money we send.

    This doesn't stop the wife from going crazy about helping them out even when they don't ask. When it is just complaining to her about their problems because she is the parent now it seems.

    If it were not for this one issue, we would almost never fight. Doesn't matter how much good sense I talk to her. You would think someone would tell their parents if they were the cause of the biggest rift between people.

    Like an addiction, once she gets it in her head that money has to go it is going to be a fight or pay. I choose the argument most time now.

    I know she has aspirations, but er aspirations for her parents, like I said, is to become aimless. To retire at 50. Worse than retire, to prematurely turn them in to geriatrics that can't take care of themselves.
    I know how it came to be, and don't blame you for anything..
    But end of the day, YOU have become "in charge" of what your wife can do for her parents..
    Which is wrong at many levels, as you will agree.. And it has a negative effect on your relationship with your wife, which is even worse..

    If she had a source of income, she would have a budget and it would be her having to make the difficult choices.. And learn to manage money "western style"... 555
    She would learn it has to be "this or that" and cannot be "this and that"...
    And you could support her in these choices, because you have learned the dilemma's the hard way.. 555

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Cippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcTwoSix View Post
    When I 1st met Ao, her mom and dad were both living in the village not working.....both in their early 40's
    And just living off of her.....and Ao was a ticking time bomb with so much stress
    I eventually convinced that is was insane her able parents weren't working at their age and both went back to work.

    But the things I see with Thais is they can be had workers but sort of want a medal for doing so.
    My wife works her ass off at the restaurant but then would come home and act like she is going to die.

    Same with my MIL.....she is always keeping busy doing something but acts like she claimed Mount Everest!! 555

    My MIL takes care of babies in the neighborhood and usually has 2 or 3 at one time(which is hard work) but it is from the poorer people who can only afford 4k or so a month.
    I am certain that a fill-on day care will work with the middle class demographic that make good money but need to work long hours and need child care but I don't think my MIL is willing to do that type of full on work.


    My mother worked until she was 70yrs
    Sounds very similar.

    We finally got her Mom working again. She didn't want to leave the village because she has a teenage son she so badly wants to take care of. Thing is, the teenage son dropped about of school and has a pretty decent job and isn't hardly ever home. That is why I was beside my self when the wife wanted her to quit her new job she traveled half way across the country for after three days. This is the first full time Job she has had in over five years. Between then was just the 300 odd baht she could make picking or planting on other peoples farms.
    Never argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. M.T.

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Cippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RakThai View Post
    I know how it came to be, and don't blame you for anything..
    But end of the day, YOU have become "in charge" of what your wife can do for her parents..
    Which is wrong at many levels, as you will agree.. And it has a negative effect on your relationship with your wife, which is even worse..

    If she had a source of income, she would have a budget and it would be her having to make the difficult choices.. And learn to manage money "western style"... 555
    She would learn it has to be "this or that" and cannot be "this and that"...
    And you could support her in these choices, because you have learned the dilemma's the hard way.. 555
    I can't wait that long! 555

    Really, I am very proud of her for setting high goals for herself. But, it will take her 4 or 5 years to achieve them and it will be a long road for me as well.
    Never argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. M.T.

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    As I mentioned above working part time in a Thai restaurant if possible.....which might not be given your work schedule and the baby.

    Once Ao started working and meeting Thais she worked with. She really changed a lot of the ways she thinks.

    When she 1st got here she was meeting very similar TG's to her situation and the dramas that come with that.

    But once she started meeting girls from outside the poorer demographics....she got a new perspective and got out of the mindset so many of our TG's have
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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน RakThai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cippy View Post
    I can't wait that long! 555

    Really, I am very proud of her for setting high goals for herself. But, it will take her 4 or 5 years to achieve them and it will be a long road for me as well.
    You don't have to wait at all..!

    A budget could be something you set, like an allowance.. Not ideal, but still shift the responsibility to where it should be..

    Simple jobs could be house-cleaning, cooking Thai food for neighbors, take care of a child during office hours (good experience / share attention for your daughter too..), do some web based things (translations for Thai-falang?)...
    Don't start looking at full-time jobs, remember what you did to make the extra buck when her age...

    Ok, better not..555

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    I also think Thais have an entrepreneurial spirit. I think because it is a low cost entry in Thailand so a lot of people have their own small businesses.

    My wife is really good at her job as a waitress in a Thai restaurant.....but it was just a job.

    Now that she is trying to start her own business you can see the wheels turning and the enthusiasm

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Cippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcTwoSix View Post
    I also think Thais have an entrepreneurial spirit. I think because it is a low cost entry in Thailand so a lot of people have their own small businesses.

    My wife is really good at her job as a waitress in a Thai restaurant.....but it was just a job.

    Now that she is trying to start her own business you can see the wheels turning and the enthusiasm
    100%. I don't know a single Thai person that doesn't dream of owning their own business. Everyone I have spoke to about it seems to think it is the only way to every make any real money and it may be for the large part true.

    If only coupled with a little ingenuity, a very rare trait in LOS indeed. Which goes hand in hand with the lack of respect for education.
    Never argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. M.T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcTwoSix View Post
    I also think Thais have an entrepreneurial spirit. I think because it is a low cost entry in Thailand so a lot of people have their own small businesses.

    My wife is really good at her job as a waitress in a Thai restaurant.....but it was just a job.

    Now that she is trying to start her own business you can see the wheels turning and the enthusiasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Cippy View Post
    100%. I don't know a single Thai person that doesn't dream of owning their own business. Everyone I have spoke to about it seems to think it is the only way to every make any real money and it may be for the large part true.

    If only coupled with a little ingenuity, a very rare trait in LOS indeed. Which goes hand in hand with the lack of respect for education.
    That is so true. My wife talks about it all the time. She wants to start something but she just doesn't know what 555. I am sure it's "worse" because her dad and stepmom actually have a succesful business, and she has a bachelor in marketing (but mostly because her father pressured her into it). Personally I'd love to start a business too but I have no marketable skills, no creativity and no start up cash. I'm the realist and pessimist in the family

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    ประเทศไทยเพื่อน Founding Member Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Changone's Avatar
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    ^Couple of good points. Right business, right place, right time, plus a well thought out plan
    and a chunk or startup money.
    We are (reluctantly) supporting a business venture by SIL & BIL.
    They went ahead with it (against better advice to stay on smaller income/risk business in local markets from their truck).
    Cousin offered a regular spot in his market, then (unexpectedly it seems) wanted rent from day one.
    By then we had little choice but to stake startup money, which effectively went straight out on rent to him.
    To not do so would have meant loss of SIL & BIL money and no income.
    But the loan is repayable with interest.
    So far so good.
    And where the hell was Biggles.....?....when you needed him last Saturday....?

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    Brother, does this topic ever resonate with me. I could fill a book with all the silly crap the mother of the two kid I help in Kanchanaburi does... or should I say did. I finally cut her off and started bank accounts for Kong and Fong instead. My help for the entire family started 13 years ago when the kids were 3 and 5. They both call me father although I'm not their biological father. The woman, Boon, just sat around and got fat... like her mother did before her. However, the two older sisters stayed slim and trim and took on jobs. One sister married a hard working Thai man who has done quite well in business. I'm still friends with them, and my initial help 13 years ago is what got them started.

    I can entirely relate to everything written here.

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    Paulie...you PM inbox is full..if you want a reply to your PM you need to clear it

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน MarcTwoSix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bacwaan View Post
    Paulie...you PM inbox is full..if you want a reply to your PM you need to clear it
    I'm just too damn popular! 555
    Or lazy!!

    Cleared now

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    Quote Originally Posted by bacwaan View Post
    Paulie...you PM inbox is full..if you want a reply to your PM you need to clear it
    It's Gay Pride week...
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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Chob's Avatar
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    While I understand the subject at hand Cip , I would like to suggest that you two are not experiencing anything greatly different from what most 'newly-wed with a baby' couples go through - and thats the difficulties experienced with time allocations ( ie " Why am I working so much when alls I want to do is be with my young family ?" ) and money pressures ( "Why cant my partner see that we need to spend money NOW on X, Y, Z ) and the collision of the two ( "Whose gonna take care of bubs while we make more money ?" ).

    Your lovely wife is at least altruistic ... how many men arrive home just like you do , only to find that his wife hasnt even asked, isnt even willing to discuss it , and she has decided to spoil herself with a thousand dollar phone or bracelet ??

    I havent missed the point , but I just think its worth mentioning that one partners frivolties , or "great" idea , nearly always leaves the other partner with less of their 'hard earned' in savings and consequently annoyed ( and committed to even more work/time away !) , and this is probably the greatest cause of friction of all in any new marriage.

    Its really a matter of setting , if you can , SHARED financial goals.
    So coming to a rock solid agreement together on how much money there is coming in , and what money is going to go out and on what expenditures ... and sticking to it. If she understands the tightness of the budget , her expectations on what "should" be sent may change...
    Will she really delay getting her own house , and if so ( for Thai ladies often its so ) will she happily deprive you of a home in order to spoil her folks ?
    Or what about the money allocated for trips back to LOS? Would she forgo visiting her parents?

    As you suspect , and my experience in one relationship. was that sending Mumma lots of money only made her worse.
    A tgf of mine had a Mum who was a dreadful gambler - she pawned and gambled 2 scooters and a new pick-up my tg had sent her , and she had then started on selling bits of family land. I was rather shocked at the amounts and at how selfish someone could be , and when we went up to visit ( the tg hadnt been up for a year ) the very night before we arrived she lost 10,000 'on tick' , so the first thing we had to do on arrival was go and have a fight with a lone shark !
    Anyway , Pappa eventually threw Mum out . And she moved to Khon Kien and got a cleaning job and actually stopped gambling . I guess that was a matter of no money , and no more gifts from my tgf , and no cronies who'd lend her money ..

    So the message is obviously that giving money often doesnt help , and can just make some people worse.

    Some respondents here have also mentioned work for the missus.
    Im going to sound pretty awful in saying that that is not a solution I would entertain either .
    If I understand correctly , you work off-shore , and as such your baby only has one parent as caregiver a lot of the time.
    For her to turn around and start to use a sitter , wherein your baby has neither parent present , in order for the missus to earn money to send to a drunk , is not something I would see as acceptable.
    Sure , as a few have said , part time and to the tune of something like $200 a month , maybe.

    But now you mention the car ....
    Last edited by Chob; 28th June 2016 at 03:04.
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