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Thread: Cultural Sensitivity - Taking a girl from Surin to Cambodia

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bawdy View Post
    'Do Thai girls specifically from Surin and Buriram in particular identify with the ancient Khmer empire and its cultural legacy or is it completely foreign?
    Well depends on whether the girl is Northern Khmer also called “Thai of Khmer descent” ไทยเชื้อสายเขมร

    Not all from Surin/Buriram are Northern Khmer, I believe the figure is around 60% and the closer to the border the more likely they are to be.

    The Northern Khmer speak what is known to others as “Khmer Surin” or “Northern Khmer” they themselves refer to it as simply “Khmer”.

    It’s classed as a separate language from Cambodian Khmer (Central Khmer), some words are the same so she would understand some words. An easy way to pick a Northern Khmer speaker when they speak English is they can pronounce their R’s well.

    You also have the Suay people who are considered the indigenous people of the area, they are elephant herders that the Surin Provence is famous for, and they also speak their own language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bawdy View Post
    When I visited Surin, I noticed behind the stage at the Tarin Daeng (Beer Hall) that there where representations of the buxom apsara/female spirits you see depicted at Angkor.
    You mean the TawanDang Mahason nightclub in Surin? I wouldn’t read too much into it as one of them is also playing a saxophone 555

    But the Thai Khmer Prasats/Sanctuary’s where built by the same people around the same time as Angkor Wat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bawdy View Post
    So do girls from that area, many of whom also speak Khmer, see themselves as belonging to the same culture and heritage, or does that thinking end at the border?

    Your thoughts?
    They are very proud of it and where they are from. I would say they are far closer to the Khmer culture than central Thai.
    But they class themselves as Thai, if you want to stir them up say they are not really Thai but Cambodian. It’s a bit like calling a Scottish person English.

    They don’t associate themselves at all with Cambodian Khmers. They consider them very different.

    Surin has been a Thai province since 1763, although had been part of Thailand since the 14th century.
    Buriram acknowledged Thai sovereignty around the same time, but didn’t become a province until around 100 years later.

    Events and ceremonies are still held at the Khmer Prasats, here a photo from a recent one.



    Attachment 15317
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moo Uaon View Post
    she'll know a little ofthe language i'd guess but probably wont like any of the food there. food is amajor concern with these girls when they're out of their own country orprovince. i'd be more concerned with that 55
    I covered the language above, she will like the food, as the food is pretty similar all the way down to Siem Reap as in Surin if she is eating the local food.

    I think it's Bawdy who may not like the local food.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1080 View Post
    Phimai site is quite impressive, been about seven years or so since I was there and restoration was an ongoing thing. there is also a history museum away from the site that is well worth a visit.
    Most Thai girls I have come across have very little interest in History, could be a Buddhist thing as in the past staying in the past?
    I think it's more to do with Thai cultural assimilation that was/is forced on them. The history and culture of the area isn't taught in schools etc, they get in trouble for talking in Khmer at school, you have to talk/read Thai when dealing with governments officials, but in doing so it's often done with disdain.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1080 View Post
    The wife is from Korat and not Burriram, very territorial some of these girls and does not like to associate with the Kampuchea people. Burriram provence is a stone's throw away so I think she can put up with them.
    The Korat dialect is an interesting one, it's a mix of Isan Lao, Thai and Northern Khmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1080 View Post
    My mate down Chanthaburi way has a wife who believes girls from Burriram are no good. 555
    Northern Khmer girls are considered the prettiest in Thailand, that's one reason to dislike them.

    As evidence to this claim and to interest people who can't be bothered reading 555

    Attachment 15318



    The other is Thai's believe they practise "black magic" as the Animism practises are still very much ingrained in everyday life and considered more important the Buddhism (or at least the same).
    Last edited by phaisan; 26th January 2018 at 15:52.
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  4. #24
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    Good informative posts Khun Phaisan...fits in with what I have read and experienced (in tid-bits) with a couple of visits to the region...

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    Quote Originally Posted by phaisan View Post

    You mean the TawanDang Mahason nightclub in Surin? I wouldn’t read too much into it as one of them is also playing a saxophone 555
    555 Yes, I remember the sax now, I did post a picture here somewhere.

    Found it!

    DSCF0581.jpg

    Thanks for the very insightfull and informative post. Agree about the girls from the region being stunning.

    Also dug up a pic of Prasat Phnom Rung;

    DSCF0560.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bawdy View Post
    555 Yes, I remember the sax now, I did post a picture here somewhere.

    Found it!

    DSCF0581.jpg
    Yeah that's it, 555 most of the music the bands play there is kontrem music which is the local northern khmer style, unique to the region.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bawdy View Post
    Thanks for the very insightfull and informative post. Agree about the girls from the region being stunning.
    No problems anything else you want to know just ask. As the beautiful girls, if you have been to TawanDang you would have seen some of the beautiful women that many have no idea exist in backwards isan. 555

    Quote Originally Posted by Bawdy View Post
    Also dug up a pic of Prasat Phnom Rung;

    DSCF0560.jpg
    Also in my avatar picture.
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    An interesting thing about Northern Khmer language is they don't have a word for "hello" they say "Tah oi" (how an english speaker would say it) which means "what are you doing" or "what's up" but have no formal word for Hello.
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    Very interesting phaisan.

    I asked Au many times why the sapeak Lao.

    All she ever tells me is.. 'you not undersatand Lao 555'.

    Biatch 555
    Experts : People who know more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuzzy View Post
    Very interesting phaisan.

    I asked Au many times why the sapeak Lao.

    All she ever tells me is.. 'you not undersatand Lao 555'.

    Biatch 555
    The reason is easy, they think you may know some Thai, but won't know Lao (Isan I take it)555

    Its no fun talking about someone in front of them if they understand you 555
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    It doesn't matter IME if they are speaking about you in Thai, Lao, Khmer or Isaan - they'll all look at you - it's a dead giveaway.
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and promoted by a sick mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end!

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by phaisan View Post
    I think it's more to do with Thai cultural assimilation that was/is forced on them. The history and culture of the area isn't taught in schools etc, they get in trouble for talking in Khmer at school, you have to talk/read Thai when dealing with governments officials, but in doing so it's often done with disdain.

    The Korat dialect is an interesting one, it's a mix of Isan Lao, Thai and Northern Khmer.

    Northern Khmer girls are considered the prettiest in Thailand, that's one reason to dislike them.

    As evidence to this claim and to interest people who can't be bothered reading 555

    Attachment 15318



    The other is Thai's believe they practise "black magic" as the Animism practises are still very much ingrained in everyday life and considered more important the Buddhism (or at least the same).
    I agree with everything in these posts above and its pretty much , though more extensive , what I would have added.

    I had a gf from Korat ( a sensible abbreviation for NR mouthful ) and she quickly informed me that Korat had its 'own' dialect and wasnt really Issan ( tho Im puzzled as to what is "pure" Issanese anyway ?? )

    She was raised about 10kms from Phimai and was well informed about its history when she took me there.
    When I asked her why she knew so much about the 'old Khmen' as she called them , she said that when she was at school they had frequent excursions there and she actually listened a lot at school , and that was because she was 'dum' ( black ) and usually alone ! 555

    I have a lot of pics , that I cant be arsed looking for on the hard drive at present , and it certainly was beautiful.
    She said it was supposed to create awe amongst those ancient travellers heading to Angkor , a reminder of what was to come for them , and in an age of huts and bamboo , it certainly would have.

    ( Interestingly and of no relation to the Khmer , there was excavations not too far away , of a culture predating all this by something like 2 or 3,000 years IIRC . Forgotten its name . But it shows this area has been inhabited for a very long time ..)

    I also have a Swedish friend here , whose wife was raised on the border at Surin and her family speaks Northern Khmer , and he said that when they went to Phnom Penh , she was hardly understood.
    And that she always said she was Thai , and I agree that this may well because of the Nationalism promoted by the Thai government throughout her life.
    I also think that many immigrants accepted into Thailand were/are actually quite grateful for the opportunity - one only has to look at the Chinese that were chased into far North Thailand by Maos forces to see how proudly Royalist and 'Thai' they are today.

    As to whether Bawdys woman enjoys the trip , or feels any cultural affiliations , I firmly agree that this will be almost entirely up to the lady.

    God knows Ive done a few Thai ladies a 'favour' driving them home or taking them on tours when they've asked , and at some point nearly all of them have occasionally turned into ingrates of the highest order and Ive wished I'd just left them to do it themselves ! 555
    I dont mean they owed me anything , but having them refuse to ask directions , or be unwilling to explain to the room service that my food order is cold , or get the huff on after getting a call from their oldest brother , isnt , well .... isnt conducive to my idea of a good holiday ! 555
    So expect some hiccups Bawdy . lol

    On the subject of beautiful LOOKING women , I totally concur.
    I was told by locals way back that the most lovely in Thailand were CM girls.
    While agreeing that beauty must be in the eye of the beholder , I feel that local reasoning and its love of "Whiteness" must be why that was said.

    After couple of years of mongering , and being none too concerned with skin tones , I developed my own mental map of Thailands Golden Triangle of Beautiful Women...55
    The area encompassed parts of Korat , Khon Kien , Surin , Chaiyapum and Buriram .
    I cant count how many of the girls who I thought of as the prettiest in the bar or club came from the latter two provinces.
    Stunning girls in the markets up there , and that was without makeup - many in a dusty sarong and an old flanellette shirt !

    So yet again I concur with what was said above , and Im wishing Bawdy a safe and happy trip.

    BTW - I take it nothing is currently still on the boil over border disputes where he is heading ? PV was a flash point a few years back..
    Last edited by Chob; 29th January 2018 at 01:01.
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    ^ Thanks Chob for your input and well wishes. My girl is very dark and she told me her teacher used to call her "blackie" at school as well. She once told me that she wanted to go to Sri Lanka to check out the temples there, so hopefully she will enjoy Angkor Wat. I think she is pretty ignorant of the history of her area and has never heard of the ruins at Sikhorapum which are not that far down the main road where she grew up. She has never seen the amazing Prasat Phnom Rung near Buriram either and told her I would like to take her and her son there one day as they really are quite impressive. I'm not expecting the trip to be smooth sailing, but I may be pleasently surprised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chob View Post
    I had a gf from Korat ( a sensible abbreviation for NR mouthful ) and she quickly informed me that Korat had its 'own' dialect and wasnt really Issan ( tho Im puzzled as to what is "pure" Issanese anyway ?? )
    Pure Isan is a Lao dialect differentiated from Lao due to Thai words and grammar usage.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chob View Post
    ( Interestingly and of no relation to the Khmer , there was excavations not too far away , of a culture predating all this by something like 2 or 3,000 years IIRC . Forgotten its name . But it shows this area has been inhabited for a very long time ..)
    Do you mean the World heritage listed Ban Chiang Archaeological Site in Udon Thani, a settlement which dates back to prehistoric times.

    Ban Chiang Archaeological Site - UNESCO World Heritage Centre

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    Uber Star Soi wanderer Thai Dreamer ผู้เพ้อฝัน Moo Uaon's Avatar
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    ^ been past that one, ban Chiang, dozens of times without stopping. Didn't know the significance. Will stop and check it out soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by phaisan View Post
    Pure Isan is a Lao dialect differentiated from Lao due to Thai words and grammar usage.


    Do you mean the World heritage listed Ban Chiang Archaeological Site in Udon Thani, a settlement which dates back to prehistoric times.

    Ban Chiang Archaeological Site - UNESCO World Heritage Centre
    Cheers .

    And do you know of where the 'purerist' Issan is spoken?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moo Uaon View Post
    ^ been past that one, ban Chiang, dozens of times without stopping. Didn't know the significance. Will stop and check it out soon.
    I think you have been informative on this site in the past.


    But the area of excavations was , according to Pen , ( iirc ) a lot closer to Korat than Udon ... but you know tgs and directions ...555

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chob View Post
    Cheers .

    And do you know of where the 'purerist' Issan is spoken?
    An educated guess would be around Khon Kaen as its pretty much in the middle of the area its spoken so less likely to have other language influences, but anywhere along the Thai/Lao border on the Thai side.

    Here is a map which looks pretty accurate.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Chob View Post
    I think you have been informative on this site in the past.


    But the area of excavations was , according to Pen , ( iirc ) a lot closer to Korat than Udon ... but you know tgs and directions ...555
    There are lots of little archaeological sites scattered around the Khorat plateau, so it may not be the same, but this one is the most famous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chob View Post
    I think you have been informative on this site in the past.


    But the area of excavations was , according to Pen , ( iirc ) a lot closer to Korat than Udon ... but you know tgs and directions ...555
    The one i found on the net is at Nong Han which is on the road between Udon and Sakhon Nakhon...

    Ban Chiang is an archeological site in Nong Han District, Udon Thani Province, Thailand. It has been on the UNESCO world heritage list since 1992. Discovered in 1966, the site attracted enormous publicity due to its attractive red painted pottery.
    FACE YOUR FEARS LIVE YOUR DREAMS

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    The closest one to Khorat that I know is the Ban Prasat Archaeological Site, Ban Prasat | Nakhon Ratchasima | Archaeological Site | Thailand | Korat | Museum | Isaan.com

    But there are a number of others spread around the Khorat Plateau.

    Oh and to be picky given the other thread its Khorat not Korat. As Khorat is the shortened version of Nakhon Ratchasima.

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