Thai Road toll

[jontymate]

I find it hard to get my head around the Thai road toll. The amount of senseless death and injury on the roads.

My question is how would you change this if you could? From farang eyes, this is one of the greatest dilemmas there is in LOS.

Chob has had some examples of getting a licence. To be honest Dao will not drive in LOS it frightens her. (Then gets up me for being overly cautious. 5555) I would never drive in BKK.

It would take generational change but how would you map out that change?? Such a complex issue from many facets of the culture.

 

[Moo Uaon]

I think if they all wore a good quality helmet while riding a motorbike you`d find the toll would be cut drastically. Most deaths are MB related here.

For some reason the vast majority only see wearing one as a way of avoiding a fine from the police. Many will carry one on their bike and put them on before known police road blocks a lot of the time and not strap them on then take them off again when they think it`s "safe" to do so....crazy but true.

Seat belts in cars probably similar and people riding in the back of pickups are other known hazardous practices.

All those together probably account for over half the deaths here. It`s all about the culture,education and poverty in the end.

 

[Nomad]

Appropriate enforcement of the law, and elimination of corruption is the only way there will be fundamental change.

BTW, I have driven in Bangkok many times and isn't particularly scary as the traffic congestion limits the speed. The freeways in BKK are ok. IMO, it is when you get out of BKK, car driving becomes more hairy.

Main problem for me is when my GPS gets hungry and malfunctions. 555

 

[jontymate]

Good start. Crazy fact for you if Dao was driving a car that does not go ding ding when you do not have a seat belt on she forgets. (Until she got fined) then she remembered after the fine was a weeks wages. Even when she new it was a must have when she got her licence here. Still forgets as a passenger unless ding ding.

Strangely enough now though, it my kids habit if she is sitting in the back to check to make sure Dao has her seatbelt on. That's the rules that were wired into them.

 

[jontymate]

Appropriate enforcement of the law, and elimination of corruption is the only way there will be fundamental change.

BTW, I have driven in Bangkok many times and isn't particularly scary as the traffic congestion limits the speed. The freeways in BKK are ok. IMO, it is when you get out of BKK, car driving becomes more hairy.

Main problem for me is when my GPS gets hungry and malfunctions. 555

True and my thoughts as well. This is why it is so hard. It will need to be a fundamental change at the very fabric of the culture. Where do you start on that tangent alone!

Yes the GPS has many functional accuracy issues. The lack of frequent recharging is one of many.5555

 

[Moo Uaon]

Pick-up Truck Crash Kills 4 'Dancing Passengers' : Khaosod Online

So unnecessary...driver reportedly drunk and passengers in the back.

 

[wabbits]

we are 5.71 dead for every 100,000 vehicles and Thailand is about 18.
More motorbikes in LOS that have to share with cars trucks and buses that have blind spots.
Separate motorbikes from the rest and the toll would plummet.
Education to protect yourself ie wearing better helmets as suggested above.

Really its something that cannot be fixed but everyone can be more aware.
Driving there is not that bad when you just work on the idea that you need to keep out of everyone else's way and expect the worst.
Driving slow is not necessarily a safe option you need to pace the traffic around you I worked out very quick..

 

[Cippy]

My biggest fear is killing someone on a motorbike my fault or no. I am continually amazed when I see them enter a busy hwy with out even stopping to looking at oncoming traffic. But as Wabbits says I am aware of it and act accordingly.

 

[kaptainrob]

BKK is perhaps the safest place to drive provided one has an electronic GPS as traffic is relatively slow moving and drivers more attune to lanes/lights and congestion.

I agree with Moo in part, most deaths and serious injury [brain injury/loss of limbs etc] is via m/b accident. Around 70% of all deaths are m/b related.

Better driver training and awareness campaigns would save lives but take many years to bring about change. Jo's practical [car] driving test comprised of parallel parking and one 2 circuits of the driver training course. The emphasis [and pass/fail] determined by parking ability only.

I'm approaching 40,000km's driving in TH and by far the most serious breaches of road safety [never mind laws] are by open road vehicles. Multiple road deaths include pax in pick-ups (usually go un-reported), VIP and Tourist/Inter Province coaches (usually make headlines).

Roads are basically very good, in many cases better than Aus, although Thai's have a total disregard for unbroken yellow lines/double lines, and red lights. I taught Jo to wait at lights, (just changed to green) and look both ways before proceeding. Twice we have witnessed near death red-light runners, both BIG trucks which would have annihilated anyone caught in the crossing.

Drug use by truckies is a major problem and we therefore avoid night driving although they usually end up as single vehicle/unreported incidents ... upside-down in the ditch.

In summary, an overhaul of the driver training system and awareness programs is needed. Speed is not so much a factor as poor driving skills.

 

[jontymate]

we are 5.71 dead for every 100,000 vehicles and Thailand is about 18.
More motorbikes in LOS that have to share with cars trucks and buses that have blind spots.
Separate motorbikes from the rest and the toll would plummet.
Education to protect yourself ie wearing better helmets as suggested above.

Really its something that cannot be fixed but everyone can be more aware.
Driving there is not that bad when you just work on the idea that you need to keep out of everyone else's way and expect the worst.
Driving slow is not necessarily a safe option you need to pace the traffic around you I worked out very quick..

Just a question there wabbit. I believe it can be fixed with will. The drink driving culture has changed in a generation or two here. Once again with a massive budget to do. China has MB free towns. So much so you can not ride a bike on an arterial road to get to one place or another. The bike is just confiscated.

I find it difficult to meet an extended Thai family that the roads or driving habits have not been touched by devastation. Even my own.

The death of the owner of MTB, the impact that had on countless people. Maybe bad example.

 

[wabbits]

Yes I understand about the touching all Thai families...I had not seen a dead body till I went to LOS unfortunately I have seen more than I would like.
Once it was suggested the mentality was A little like a video game Bang and reset ie You will come back again..But just one mans opinion...
Enforced speed limits with consequences might help, Instant loss of licence for vehicle that push other to the far curb....Seen in my short time so many close calls.

On a personal level stay away from bikes when drinking,.
Try not to drive country at night.
If riding late at night take extra extra care and go slow around blind corners you never know what drug fueled Thai guy might decide to cut the corner..

 

[kaptainrob]

One problem with m/b riders is total non-awareness of who or what is alongside or behind them in lanes. I've been on our 90kmph 3 lane ring road and had a m/b come out from a side road at ~30kmph and cross diagonally (without giving way) in order to access a U-turn break.

 

[Changone]

Oddly enough I think Thais are actually much more "Bike aware" than Aussies.
In a car vs bike in Thailand the car is almost always found to be at fault. In Oz the defence is always "I didn't see him".
Maybe this is what (As KR points out) gives some Thai bike riders that (sometimes fatal) feeling of invincibility in traffic.
Thais also see a certain "Inevitability" in road deaths. It is so much less a cause and effect thing than in the west and it is this that keeps all the usual measures from being accepted and therefore working.

 

[Hatari]

Some perspective on the huge numbers involved
From The Nation 16 March 2013

Up to 26,000 people are killed in road accidents every year in Thailand, which puts the country in the 6th spot in terms of road casualties. Of those killed, up to 70 or 80 per cent are motorcyclists or their passengers.

These statistics were released at a press conference by Vice Interior Minister Silapachai Jarukasemratana yesterday.

He told the press that the key causes for the deaths were speeding, drunk driving or the failure to wear safety belts or crash helmets - all of which are offences under traffic laws.

Last year, just 43 per cent of motorcyclists and their passengers nationwide wore helmets, down from 46 per cent a year earlier.

According to the 2011 World Road Statistics, Thailand was one of the top five countries with the highest number of motorcycle-related deaths.

Danai Ruangsorn, president of the Thai Roads Foundation, said the percentage of children wearing helmets on motorcycles was also very low.

"Just 7 per cent wear a helmet," he said.

Last year's survey showed that only about 28 per cent of teenage motorcyclists and about 49 per cent of adults wore helmets.

26,000 - a nice round figure of 500 per week on average
A fatality every 20 minutes or so
And about 350-400 of those 500 will be motorcycle-related

The government seems to treat it as 'collateral damage'
The occasional campaign, lots of "100% helmet" signs around Chanthaburi where we live, otherwise it's just accepted s normal

If riders/drivers had to have a licence?
Immediately hundreds of thousands of vehicles (maybe a million+ ?) off the road as all the 12-15 year olds who ride motorbikes to school would be off the road
They don't wear helmets either

If vehicles had a safety check?
See motorbikes/sidecars with no lights, no registration plate . . . and well off 'roadworthy'

The answer?
Resistance is futile.

Last year on a stretch of Sukhumvit 3 about 10km from home, at that point it is 10 lanes wide with a median strip and centre lanes an absolute racetrack . . . pedal on my bicycle clipped by sidecar and off into a big ditch i went. On bike quick and chased the motorbike/sidecar and caught them at lights. Rider - a boy about 7, with a 2-3yr old girl in the sidecar. If I'd hit eg a aprked car or lampost instead off a ditch I wouldn't have been walking away.

Look at Thairath or any of the Thai daily news sites, every day motor accidents, and it's only the 'good' gory ones that even make the news, eg:
Last Monday in Kanchnaburi a heavy salvage towtruck was trying to pull a crashed truck from a ditch, its wire rope across one lane. A Toyota pickup didn't see the wire and continued driving between the vehicles. Three dead - decapitated the paper said. link

No answer.
Except look after yourself/family as best you can

 

[Hatari]

pretty picture - from 2010 but doubt the percentages have changed much

Source page 17

 

[Mate]

It's simple. Wear a seatbelt.

 

[Quarky]

then again, NZs death toll is damn high compared to the UK... why is that? Poor road design?

 

[Nomad]

True and my thoughts as well. This is why it is so hard. It will need to be a fundamental change at the very fabric of the culture. Where do you start on that tangent alone!

It will only change when the population as a whole is much more wealthy than they are today, and that wealth is broadly based. Then there are many people with a lot to lose from corruption and laws not being enforced.

 

[jontymate]

It's simple. Wear a seatbelt.

Mate If it were simple. It would be done.

On earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.555555

I see it as not simple. A very real problem with complexities beyond my scope to resolve.

 

[MarcTwoSix]

Good start. Crazy fact for you if Dao was driving a car that does not go ding ding when you do not have a seat belt on she forgets. (Until she got fined) then she remembered after the fine was a weeks wages. Even when she new it was a must have when she got her licence here. Still forgets as a passenger unless ding ding.

Strangely enough now though, it my kids habit if she is sitting in the back to check to make sure Dao has her seatbelt on. That's the rules that were wired into them.

but it took us a long time
i feel naked without a seatbelt on now, but up until i was 15yrs old, that was not the norm

it takes time for things to be ingrained